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There's nothing hypothetical about it. I'm actually baffled at the fact that people here infer random motivations when Usama bin Laden gave interviews as far ba

There's nothing hypothetical about it. I'm actually baffled at the fact that people here infer random motivations when Usama bin Laden gave interviews as far back as the early 90s and held multiple speeches after 9/11. The stated goal of the attacks was to show Americans that their continuous war and support for secular dictators in the Muslim world would come with high cost, and to force the American government to retreat from the Middle East. This of course backfired spectacularly. Revenge is certainly a primary motivation, too, but I really don't think there is much room on the interpretation for the initial motivation because Al Qaeda was always very open and clear about it.

wing-_-nuts 5y ago
It's funny, but in a way, he accomplished his goal of getting us out of the middle east. Our weariness with our involvement in the middle east has caused a big push for energy independence. We fracked our way back to being the worlds largest oil producer. That, and our transition to a greener economy is bad news for middle eastern oil producers. We're much more willing to leave the entire region to their own miserable devices. Biden is getting a lot of flack for pulling out of Afghanistan, and yes, he completely dropped the ball on the organization of the withdrawal, but if it means that not one more drop of american blood is shed, it's worth it.
- selimthegrim 5y ago
  Anand Gopal’s article in the New Yorker this month shows how the Afghan Army (including the media darling Sami Sadat) was wasting civilians in Helmand using the vaunted Black Hawks we gave them and calling it progress.
rswail 5y ago
I'd say it's been remarkably successful. The US has abandoned Syria, Iraq, Kurds. It still has some sway with Saudi Arabia and Israel, none in Egypt or Libya. The withdrawal from Afghanistan is a culmination of that. The neo-conservative response to Al Qaeda was exactly what was needed to provoke this collapse over 20 years.
- Sebb767 5y ago
  Yes, but that took 20 years. Before, they got a war and permanent drone terror plus a massive amount of ground troops. I doubt 9/11 has anything to do with them retreating now; in fact, it's probably helping that the scars heal.
- goto11 5y ago
  At the time of the 9/11 attacks, the US did not have bases in in Afghanistan, Iraq or Libya. Bin Laden was complaining about US presence in Saudi Arabia and Israel. So even with recent withdrawals, the US presence is only back at the level at the tine of the attacks. I don't see how this can in any way be construed as successful? The purpose of the 9/11 attacks was to get the American public to demand the US withdraws support to Israel and Saudi Arabia. This has clearly failed.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > The US has abandoned Syria, Iraq, Kurds. It wasn’t much involved in any of those (and indeed had already abandoned the Kurds after the conflict which motivated the formation of al-Qaeda) when al-Qaeda actually got organized. It got reinvolved with them largely enabled by the political fallout from 9/11. > The withdrawal from Afghanistan is a culmination of that. Again, that's mostly a reversion to the status quo ante.

wing-_-nuts 5y ago

It's funny, but in a way, he accomplished his goal of getting us out of the middle east. Our weariness with our involvement in the middle east has caused a big push for energy independence. We fracked our way back to being the worlds largest oil producer. That, and our transition to a greener economy is bad news for middle eastern oil producers. We're much more willing to leave the entire region to their own miserable devices. Biden is getting a lot of flack for pulling out of Afghanistan, and yes, he completely dropped the ball on the organization of the withdrawal, but if it means that not one more drop of american blood is shed, it's worth it.

selimthegrim 5y ago
Anand Gopal’s article in the New Yorker this month shows how the Afghan Army (including the media darling Sami Sadat) was wasting civilians in Helmand using the vaunted Black Hawks we gave them and calling it progress.

rswail 5y ago

I'd say it's been remarkably successful. The US has abandoned Syria, Iraq, Kurds. It still has some sway with Saudi Arabia and Israel, none in Egypt or Libya. The withdrawal from Afghanistan is a culmination of that. The neo-conservative response to Al Qaeda was exactly what was needed to provoke this collapse over 20 years.

Sebb767 5y ago
Yes, but that took 20 years. Before, they got a war and permanent drone terror plus a massive amount of ground troops. I doubt 9/11 has anything to do with them retreating now; in fact, it's probably helping that the scars heal.
goto11 5y ago
At the time of the 9/11 attacks, the US did not have bases in in Afghanistan, Iraq or Libya. Bin Laden was complaining about US presence in Saudi Arabia and Israel. So even with recent withdrawals, the US presence is only back at the level at the tine of the attacks. I don't see how this can in any way be construed as successful? The purpose of the 9/11 attacks was to get the American public to demand the US withdraws support to Israel and Saudi Arabia. This has clearly failed.
dragonwriter 5y ago
> The US has abandoned Syria, Iraq, Kurds. It wasn’t much involved in any of those (and indeed had already abandoned the Kurds after the conflict which motivated the formation of al-Qaeda) when al-Qaeda actually got organized. It got reinvolved with them largely enabled by the political fallout from 9/11. > The withdrawal from Afghanistan is a culmination of that. Again, that's mostly a reversion to the status quo ante.