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> It would be far more effective to do something at the gates dude to the density of humanity Maybe it is about shifting the blame. If something happens outsid

by mrtksn 5y ago

> It would be far more effective to do something at the gates dude to the density of humanity Maybe it is about shifting the blame. If something happens outside, it's the police failure but if something happens inside it is venue management failure. Anyway, I completely agree that we have given up way too much in the name of security. If it's not the terrorist, then it is "think of the children" scare and we are about to get our personal devices scanning our personal files and report us to the authorities. For now it is CSAM material but I don't see any reason why the same devices wouldn't be scanning for other stuff once the system is in place. I totally expect our devices to start checking on us for "betrayal" patterns once the conflict with China intensifies, for example. Once you become a "human resource" and nothing more in the eyes of the political structures, you will need to be managed and in 2020s the tools for it are plenty and powerful.

hunterb123 5y ago
The new thing is "think of grandma". Say delta variant enough and you can get anyone to give up anything. Post covid is like post 9/11. This is the new normal. Vaccine passports and all.
- duxup 5y ago
  Thinking of other people and getting a vaccine and going on with your life without much of any impact seems like a very low bar.
  - hunterb123 5y ago
    Many reasons to not get a mRNA vaccine, natural immunity is one. Thinking that you need everyone to get a vaccine to live a normal life is a strange bar.
    - duxup 5y ago
      >Thinking that you need everyone to get a vaccine to live a normal life is a strange bar. I don't understand what that means. What happened to thinking of other people? When I think of getting a vaccine... I just do it as a part of normal life. It doesn't change my life at all, outside of added immunity.
      - hunterb123 5y ago
        > When I think of getting a vaccine... I just do it as a part of normal life That's exactly my point. You aren't thinking, you're just following. > What happened to thinking of other people? My point as well. It's the same "think of the children" argument that was being discussed above. That itself is not a reason. People have immunity. The curve is flattened, the goal posts have been moved out of the stadium.
        duxup 5y ago
        What does any of that mean? You're talking about "aren't thinking" but most of your posts just involve nebulous throw away phrases like "People have immunity"... clearly you know that phrase doesn't mean anything right? In the meantime we can all see for ourselves actual impact, real things, in areas where vaccination rates are low. These aren't nebulous concepts like your phrases, they're real.
        hunterb123 5y ago
        Real things? Please point to the real things. Case numbers! Case numbers! Hospital rates are NEARLY at capacity!!!! Yeah that has been said over and over. Things are fine. Go outside of the city, noone respects this stuff and hasn't the whole time, noone is dying more than usual. Worry about cars and obesity if you want to make a difference.
        jazzyjackson 5y ago
        :/ just because rural folks don’t care the hospital is full doesn’t mean the hospital isn’t full
        hunterb123 5y ago
        Not at all what I said. The hospital isn't full. Show me a single hospital that is OVER or AT capacity. All the fear mongering articles say is the ICU is at 90%~ They are always around that number. Show me the percentage of covid patients in that ICU. Show me the normal number of the ICU. Worry about obesity if you want to stop the number one and two killers of humans and relieve our healthcare system.
    - jjeaff 5y ago
      What are the reasons not to get a vaccine? I haven't seen any real data that indicated that.
      - hunterb123 5y ago
        Waiting to see the long term effects of a mRNA vaccine? Natural immunity as I mentioned before. Religious reasons. Just because. You don't need a reason, it's your body.
        recursive 5y ago
        I don't understand "natural immunity" as a reason. I think I don't know what it actually means. As far as I know, natural immunity is conferred if and only if you've recovered from the virus. And one of the goals of the vaccine is to avoid getting it in the first place. But to get natural immunity, you have to be infected first. It seems a bit like burning down your house to prevent arson from a stranger. Have I misunderstood "natural immunity"?
        hunterb123 5y ago
        Likewise, yelling at people to get the vaccine makes no sense. If you don't want to catch the virus, get the vaccine. Don't worry about others. They will get the virus and then get natural immunity. People will have adverse reactions to both covid and the vaccine. Let them weigh the risk to which one.
        recursive 5y ago
        Thanks for the advice, but that's already exactly what I'm doing. One downside of this though, is that ICU beds are full. I'll also hope I don't need one. I very rarely have before, so I'll probably be ok.
        kristjansson 5y ago
        > They will get the virus and then get natural immunity Only if they, y'know, survive, and only after being a nuisance to the healthcare system that the rest of rely on You've got a point that verifiable natural immunity as of _now_ should probably be acceptable in lieu of vaccination (though efficacy against variants is worth considering) for mandates. Offering 'natural immunity' as an option to the currently un-vaccinated un-infected population is just crazy. People will assume the risk, get sick, got to hospital, and die. Just ignoring those 'others' isn't an option for public-health since the downside costs of the risk they assume are borne by everyone in the form of healthcare burden. 'They' still expect to be a priority when they get sick...
  - isoskeles 5y ago
    Except now I’m supposed to show a digital vaccine record many places I go. Not many open source options exist for reading them either, so I’m just supposed to trust that the data (name, birth date, maybe location) isn’t being sent to some marketing analytics company somewhere. Edit: Since some HN commenters want to play disingenuous games and insert words into my mouth, I’ll clarify my specific problem is with these apps having zero standards. If my state makes its own app or devises a law to prosecute this kind of use of private data, I would have less of a problem with it as a temporary measure.
    - Jasper_ 5y ago
      when I got my first vaccine, they gave me a paper card, and they put stickers on it to record which vaccines I got, and I put it in my wallet where it's been ever since. I haven't (yet, I guess) had to show a "digital vaccine record", I just show my paper card and they stare at it for a bit and then wave me through. if you did not get that option, that sucks, and it sounds a bit inconvenient, but, uh, yeah, over 600,000 people in the US have died so far, i don't think that's a "scare", that sounds like a valid concern to me. also your data is almost assuredly at 20 different marketing analytics firms already, regardless of how secure or open-source the digital vaccine record is.
      - isoskeles 5y ago
        You don’t know where my data is. And regardless, that doesn’t mean I’m supposed to be okay with another vector that I cannot opt out of for potentially selling my data.
    - void_mint 5y ago
      > Except now I’m supposed to show a digital vaccine record many places I go. Not many open source options exist for reading them either, so I’m just supposed to trust that the data (name, birth date, maybe location) isn’t being sent to some marketing analytics company somewhere. If you think vaccine passports are bad just wait until you hear about all phones...
      - 5y ago
- boldlybold 5y ago
  Funny how HN is so willing to agree with the absurdity of security theater at airports, yet so resistant to calling out the pandemic theater we're living every day.
  - duxup 5y ago
    Probably because we can't see much evidence of airport security doing anything. And vaccines and etc are backed by science?
    - biomcgary 5y ago
      Know of any randomized controlled trials on airport security?
      - duxup 5y ago
        It would be nice if they would do that.
      - EvanAnderson 5y ago
        There absolutely are red-team exercises against airport security. Sometimes the TSA has fared very poorly[0]. In the face of decreased air travel during this pandemic their "catch rate" has gotten better[1]. [0] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/investigation-breaches-us-airports-allowed-weapons-through-n367851 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/investigation-breaches-... [1] https://www.npr.org/2021/01/26/960872502/2020-firearm-catch-rate-at-airports-doubled-from-previous-year https://www.npr.org/2021/01/26/960872502/2020-firearm-catch-...
  - mrtksn 5y ago
    The existence of the pandemic is a very observable and testable. The ways to combat the pandemic are also well known and tested. How a person can deny the existence of something that can test it personally?
    - hunterb123 5y ago
- mrtksn 5y ago
  I got vaccinated to protect myself, not fan of natural immunity through suffocating. 2 days pain in the shoulder, 1 day of a mild fever and affectionate feelings towards Bill Gates is a great bargain.
  - hunterb123 5y ago
    Funny reddit quip you got there, but I'm talking about those who already have immunity, why should they risk the vaccine, even if small. https://openvaers.com/covid-data https://openvaers.com/covid-data
    - mrtksn 5y ago
      I wouldn't know why those who already have immunity would get the vaccine. There are studies showing that a shot post Covid-19 greatly increases the immune response agains variants, so there could be reasons. In Europe getting the decease and beating it is considered good enough for immunity. Talk to your local authorities if you are not happy with your local practices.
      - hunterb123 5y ago
        But only last for 6 months, hence the boosters. Natural immunity lasts longer.
        mrtksn 5y ago
        You can always chase people who sneeze on the streets(hang around a hospital maybe?), get your covid, test positive, quarantine yourself for 2 weeks and hope for the best as an immuniser or a natural booster. The vaccines on the other hand are much more practical and safer. They seem to lose some efficacy over time against getting covid but the results against getting seriously ill are very promising. Which probably means, if you get Covid-19 naturally later on, it would be a natural booster with much lower risk compared to a non-vaxxed person.
        snowwrestler 5y ago
- ryguytilidie 5y ago
  Wow, I think I found the most disingenuous person on hacker news.
  - hunterb123 5y ago
    I speak my mind, unlike the echo chamber here. That's the opposite of disingenuous. Others have agreed with me, they either get greyed out or flagged. Even in this thread, look below. I'm sorry the majority follows blindly and can't see the similarities between the loss of freedom after 9/11 and covid.
    - staticassertion 5y ago
      Comparing the patriot act to mask mandates would be hilarious if it wasn't such a damning indictment of current discourse.
    - ryandrake 5y ago
      You've already posted 22 times in this discussion, including COVID denial and downplaying, hyperbole about "freedom loss", labeling someone a Nazi, sea-lioning for hospital stats, and spreading vaccine FUD. What are you trying to accomplish? Have you ever stepped back from the keyboard for a brief moment, reflected on why everything you post is grayed out, and come to a conclusion that doesn't involve groupthink and a massive conspiratorial campaign against "the truth"?

by mrtksn 5y ago

hunterb123 5y ago

The new thing is "think of grandma". Say delta variant enough and you can get anyone to give up anything. Post covid is like post 9/11. This is the new normal. Vaccine passports and all.

duxup 5y ago
Thinking of other people and getting a vaccine and going on with your life without much of any impact seems like a very low bar.
- hunterb123 5y ago
  Many reasons to not get a mRNA vaccine, natural immunity is one. Thinking that you need everyone to get a vaccine to live a normal life is a strange bar.
  - duxup 5y ago
    >Thinking that you need everyone to get a vaccine to live a normal life is a strange bar. I don't understand what that means. What happened to thinking of other people? When I think of getting a vaccine... I just do it as a part of normal life. It doesn't change my life at all, outside of added immunity.
    - hunterb123 5y ago
      > When I think of getting a vaccine... I just do it as a part of normal life That's exactly my point. You aren't thinking, you're just following. > What happened to thinking of other people? My point as well. It's the same "think of the children" argument that was being discussed above. That itself is not a reason. People have immunity. The curve is flattened, the goal posts have been moved out of the stadium.
      - duxup 5y ago
        What does any of that mean? You're talking about "aren't thinking" but most of your posts just involve nebulous throw away phrases like "People have immunity"... clearly you know that phrase doesn't mean anything right? In the meantime we can all see for ourselves actual impact, real things, in areas where vaccination rates are low. These aren't nebulous concepts like your phrases, they're real.
        hunterb123 5y ago
        Real things? Please point to the real things. Case numbers! Case numbers! Hospital rates are NEARLY at capacity!!!! Yeah that has been said over and over. Things are fine. Go outside of the city, noone respects this stuff and hasn't the whole time, noone is dying more than usual. Worry about cars and obesity if you want to make a difference.
        jazzyjackson 5y ago
        :/ just because rural folks don’t care the hospital is full doesn’t mean the hospital isn’t full
        hunterb123 5y ago
        Not at all what I said. The hospital isn't full. Show me a single hospital that is OVER or AT capacity. All the fear mongering articles say is the ICU is at 90%~ They are always around that number. Show me the percentage of covid patients in that ICU. Show me the normal number of the ICU. Worry about obesity if you want to stop the number one and two killers of humans and relieve our healthcare system.
  - jjeaff 5y ago
    What are the reasons not to get a vaccine? I haven't seen any real data that indicated that.
    - hunterb123 5y ago
      Waiting to see the long term effects of a mRNA vaccine? Natural immunity as I mentioned before. Religious reasons. Just because. You don't need a reason, it's your body.
      - recursive 5y ago
        I don't understand "natural immunity" as a reason. I think I don't know what it actually means. As far as I know, natural immunity is conferred if and only if you've recovered from the virus. And one of the goals of the vaccine is to avoid getting it in the first place. But to get natural immunity, you have to be infected first. It seems a bit like burning down your house to prevent arson from a stranger. Have I misunderstood "natural immunity"?
        hunterb123 5y ago
        Likewise, yelling at people to get the vaccine makes no sense. If you don't want to catch the virus, get the vaccine. Don't worry about others. They will get the virus and then get natural immunity. People will have adverse reactions to both covid and the vaccine. Let them weigh the risk to which one.
        recursive 5y ago
        Thanks for the advice, but that's already exactly what I'm doing. One downside of this though, is that ICU beds are full. I'll also hope I don't need one. I very rarely have before, so I'll probably be ok.
        kristjansson 5y ago
        > They will get the virus and then get natural immunity Only if they, y'know, survive, and only after being a nuisance to the healthcare system that the rest of rely on You've got a point that verifiable natural immunity as of _now_ should probably be acceptable in lieu of vaccination (though efficacy against variants is worth considering) for mandates. Offering 'natural immunity' as an option to the currently un-vaccinated un-infected population is just crazy. People will assume the risk, get sick, got to hospital, and die. Just ignoring those 'others' isn't an option for public-health since the downside costs of the risk they assume are borne by everyone in the form of healthcare burden. 'They' still expect to be a priority when they get sick...
- isoskeles 5y ago
  Except now I’m supposed to show a digital vaccine record many places I go. Not many open source options exist for reading them either, so I’m just supposed to trust that the data (name, birth date, maybe location) isn’t being sent to some marketing analytics company somewhere. Edit: Since some HN commenters want to play disingenuous games and insert words into my mouth, I’ll clarify my specific problem is with these apps having zero standards. If my state makes its own app or devises a law to prosecute this kind of use of private data, I would have less of a problem with it as a temporary measure.
  - Jasper_ 5y ago
    when I got my first vaccine, they gave me a paper card, and they put stickers on it to record which vaccines I got, and I put it in my wallet where it's been ever since. I haven't (yet, I guess) had to show a "digital vaccine record", I just show my paper card and they stare at it for a bit and then wave me through. if you did not get that option, that sucks, and it sounds a bit inconvenient, but, uh, yeah, over 600,000 people in the US have died so far, i don't think that's a "scare", that sounds like a valid concern to me. also your data is almost assuredly at 20 different marketing analytics firms already, regardless of how secure or open-source the digital vaccine record is.
    - isoskeles 5y ago
      You don’t know where my data is. And regardless, that doesn’t mean I’m supposed to be okay with another vector that I cannot opt out of for potentially selling my data.
  - void_mint 5y ago
    > Except now I’m supposed to show a digital vaccine record many places I go. Not many open source options exist for reading them either, so I’m just supposed to trust that the data (name, birth date, maybe location) isn’t being sent to some marketing analytics company somewhere. If you think vaccine passports are bad just wait until you hear about all phones...
    - 5y ago
boldlybold 5y ago
Funny how HN is so willing to agree with the absurdity of security theater at airports, yet so resistant to calling out the pandemic theater we're living every day.
- duxup 5y ago
  Probably because we can't see much evidence of airport security doing anything. And vaccines and etc are backed by science?
  - biomcgary 5y ago
    Know of any randomized controlled trials on airport security?
    - duxup 5y ago
      It would be nice if they would do that.
    - EvanAnderson 5y ago
      There absolutely are red-team exercises against airport security. Sometimes the TSA has fared very poorly[0]. In the face of decreased air travel during this pandemic their "catch rate" has gotten better[1]. [0] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/investigation-breaches-us-airports-allowed-weapons-through-n367851 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/investigation-breaches-... [1] https://www.npr.org/2021/01/26/960872502/2020-firearm-catch-rate-at-airports-doubled-from-previous-year https://www.npr.org/2021/01/26/960872502/2020-firearm-catch-...
- mrtksn 5y ago
  The existence of the pandemic is a very observable and testable. The ways to combat the pandemic are also well known and tested. How a person can deny the existence of something that can test it personally?
  - hunterb123 5y ago
mrtksn 5y ago
I got vaccinated to protect myself, not fan of natural immunity through suffocating. 2 days pain in the shoulder, 1 day of a mild fever and affectionate feelings towards Bill Gates is a great bargain.
- hunterb123 5y ago
  Funny reddit quip you got there, but I'm talking about those who already have immunity, why should they risk the vaccine, even if small. https://openvaers.com/covid-data https://openvaers.com/covid-data
  - mrtksn 5y ago
    I wouldn't know why those who already have immunity would get the vaccine. There are studies showing that a shot post Covid-19 greatly increases the immune response agains variants, so there could be reasons. In Europe getting the decease and beating it is considered good enough for immunity. Talk to your local authorities if you are not happy with your local practices.
    - hunterb123 5y ago
      But only last for 6 months, hence the boosters. Natural immunity lasts longer.
      - mrtksn 5y ago
        You can always chase people who sneeze on the streets(hang around a hospital maybe?), get your covid, test positive, quarantine yourself for 2 weeks and hope for the best as an immuniser or a natural booster. The vaccines on the other hand are much more practical and safer. They seem to lose some efficacy over time against getting covid but the results against getting seriously ill are very promising. Which probably means, if you get Covid-19 naturally later on, it would be a natural booster with much lower risk compared to a non-vaxxed person.
      - snowwrestler 5y ago
ryguytilidie 5y ago
Wow, I think I found the most disingenuous person on hacker news.
- hunterb123 5y ago
  I speak my mind, unlike the echo chamber here. That's the opposite of disingenuous. Others have agreed with me, they either get greyed out or flagged. Even in this thread, look below. I'm sorry the majority follows blindly and can't see the similarities between the loss of freedom after 9/11 and covid.
  - staticassertion 5y ago
    Comparing the patriot act to mask mandates would be hilarious if it wasn't such a damning indictment of current discourse.
  - ryandrake 5y ago
    You've already posted 22 times in this discussion, including COVID denial and downplaying, hyperbole about "freedom loss", labeling someone a Nazi, sea-lioning for hospital stats, and spreading vaccine FUD. What are you trying to accomplish? Have you ever stepped back from the keyboard for a brief moment, reflected on why everything you post is grayed out, and come to a conclusion that doesn't involve groupthink and a massive conspiratorial campaign against "the truth"?