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I didn’t realize how much Stockholm Syndrome I had with Confluence until we switched to using Notion for our game design documents. It’s fast and responsive, wh

I didn’t realize how much Stockholm Syndrome I had with Confluence until we switched to using Notion for our game design documents. It’s fast and responsive, which somehow in 2021 Atlassian still hasn’t figured out how to replicate with any of their products.

sanedigital 5y ago
After fighting the move to Jira/Confluence for years, my company finally migrated away from Notion & Clubhouse. I couldn't be happier. Notion was great when we were <5 people, but it feels like a toy compared to Confluence.
- Spivak 5y ago
  What am I missing out on? I get Confluence has lots of enterprisey features for sysadmins but as an author it has always been a terrible experience, especially for code. There's so much friction to actually creating documentation that nobody actually does it or if they do never bother to update it.
  - bradknowles 5y ago
    With JIRA and Confluence, there is never just one JIRA or Confluence. It really comes down to the configuration. And there are hundreds, if not thousands, of different configuration options that could be built into your particular implementation which may make it sing, or make it like a bad CAFO. I’ve been part of a team doing JIRA and Confluence configuration. We saw on,y the tiniest bit about the configuration process required to make it work, and we slammed that hood right back down and decided we were never going to look under there again. Well, not ourselves. But we did hire a JIRA and Confluence expert to come in and help us make it as optimized as we could get. I’ve also been a customer of bad JIRA and Confluence configurations. And when they’re bad, they can be really bad. But, as a customer, you don’t have any control over those system configuration options. It’s like saying that a hammer is bad. Well, which hammer did you use? There are dozens or hundreds of different types of hammers out there. How did you use this hammer? What did you use this hammer on? Where did you use this hammer? Were you trained in how to use it properly? Did you actually use it properly, or were you using it in a way that was not consistent with its design? There is no one JIRA or Confluence.
  - sanedigital 5y ago
    Confluence's biggest value to me is on the Product/Project Management side of things, not necessarily code documentation. Being able to embed Figma docs, client requests .docx files, link to tables/epics/issues, and produce Gantt charts all in one place has been absolutely critical to taking our team from "boutique software studio" to "fast-growing product agency."
polote 5y ago
Confluence is too often used in use cases it was not design for. That includes being used by companies with less 50 people. This probably contributes to its criticisms. But Confluence will almost always beat Notion when the company reach more than 150 people. <100 employess : Notion clear winner > 150 employees : Confluence clear winner
- cjlm 5y ago
  is there a magical tool for the 100 <= employee <= 150 gap?
  - polote 5y ago
    None that I'm aware of. Thing to understand is that Notion and Confluence are vastly different products. Notion is more for sharing a set of documents that are often used. And thus create some hierarchy of content without right management or structure. Works well if you are business owner or a team, or a small company. Or if you want to onboard noob users into documenting their work. And Notion is very good at that Confluence works better to manage a lot of documents, give rights, structure content, organize. Confluence is not very good at it, but this is a difficult task and competitors don't do better So depending on where you are at, you can pick the one which suits you best. They are others less popular tools than Confluence and Notion but still are in the two categories described above
- zerop 5y ago
  How confluence wins when you have more employees? I find it pretty bloated and outdated. Same for Jira.
  - polote 5y ago
    By being better than the competition. And in this specific case by having no competitors ( see other comment, they are different products)
tmpz22 5y ago
> It’s fast and responsive What parts of notion are you claiming are fast and responsive? In my experience using the web app is very slow, and search is monstrously slow. We still use it but slowness is our chief complaint for the platform.
- Spivak 5y ago
  If all you know is JIRA then Notion feels like a breath of fresh air. Like it's not fast, but I never really expected blinding speed since Notion pages are so dynamic. But it's also not JIRA's click on something then wait a few seconds for the UI to catch up on a many thousand dollar laptop.
  - WesleyLivesay 5y ago
    People who have not used a lot of JIRA may not understand that there is "slow" and then there is "JIRA slow" when it comes to webapps.
    - hesdeadjim 5y ago
      Yes, this. We've been using JIRA, Confluence, and Bamboo and dear god does it drive me nuts how slow things are.
  - tmpz22 5y ago
    > wait a few seconds for the UI to catch up When loading it absolutely takes 4-6 seconds to complete rendering. If you’re talking about intra-page actions like adding a complex ui element after load you’re right it is better then Jira in that regard.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- packetlost 5y ago
  Switching pages and search are infuriatingly slow on Notion. I still love the rest of it, but my god switch to using a local cache for searching or something please
tomComb 5y ago
I find it brutally slow. At first I was a big fan but over time I've mostly stopped using it because I just couldn't stand how slow it is (using it in browser on a laptop). I hang on in the hopes they will address the problem.

sanedigital 5y ago

After fighting the move to Jira/Confluence for years, my company finally migrated away from Notion & Clubhouse. I couldn't be happier. Notion was great when we were <5 people, but it feels like a toy compared to Confluence.

Spivak 5y ago
What am I missing out on? I get Confluence has lots of enterprisey features for sysadmins but as an author it has always been a terrible experience, especially for code. There's so much friction to actually creating documentation that nobody actually does it or if they do never bother to update it.
- bradknowles 5y ago
  With JIRA and Confluence, there is never just one JIRA or Confluence. It really comes down to the configuration. And there are hundreds, if not thousands, of different configuration options that could be built into your particular implementation which may make it sing, or make it like a bad CAFO. I’ve been part of a team doing JIRA and Confluence configuration. We saw on,y the tiniest bit about the configuration process required to make it work, and we slammed that hood right back down and decided we were never going to look under there again. Well, not ourselves. But we did hire a JIRA and Confluence expert to come in and help us make it as optimized as we could get. I’ve also been a customer of bad JIRA and Confluence configurations. And when they’re bad, they can be really bad. But, as a customer, you don’t have any control over those system configuration options. It’s like saying that a hammer is bad. Well, which hammer did you use? There are dozens or hundreds of different types of hammers out there. How did you use this hammer? What did you use this hammer on? Where did you use this hammer? Were you trained in how to use it properly? Did you actually use it properly, or were you using it in a way that was not consistent with its design? There is no one JIRA or Confluence.
- sanedigital 5y ago
  Confluence's biggest value to me is on the Product/Project Management side of things, not necessarily code documentation. Being able to embed Figma docs, client requests .docx files, link to tables/epics/issues, and produce Gantt charts all in one place has been absolutely critical to taking our team from "boutique software studio" to "fast-growing product agency."

polote 5y ago

Confluence is too often used in use cases it was not design for. That includes being used by companies with less 50 people. This probably contributes to its criticisms. But Confluence will almost always beat Notion when the company reach more than 150 people. <100 employess : Notion clear winner > 150 employees : Confluence clear winner

cjlm 5y ago
is there a magical tool for the 100 <= employee <= 150 gap?
- polote 5y ago
  None that I'm aware of. Thing to understand is that Notion and Confluence are vastly different products. Notion is more for sharing a set of documents that are often used. And thus create some hierarchy of content without right management or structure. Works well if you are business owner or a team, or a small company. Or if you want to onboard noob users into documenting their work. And Notion is very good at that Confluence works better to manage a lot of documents, give rights, structure content, organize. Confluence is not very good at it, but this is a difficult task and competitors don't do better So depending on where you are at, you can pick the one which suits you best. They are others less popular tools than Confluence and Notion but still are in the two categories described above
zerop 5y ago
How confluence wins when you have more employees? I find it pretty bloated and outdated. Same for Jira.
- polote 5y ago
  By being better than the competition. And in this specific case by having no competitors ( see other comment, they are different products)

tmpz22 5y ago

> It’s fast and responsive What parts of notion are you claiming are fast and responsive? In my experience using the web app is very slow, and search is monstrously slow. We still use it but slowness is our chief complaint for the platform.

Spivak 5y ago
If all you know is JIRA then Notion feels like a breath of fresh air. Like it's not fast, but I never really expected blinding speed since Notion pages are so dynamic. But it's also not JIRA's click on something then wait a few seconds for the UI to catch up on a many thousand dollar laptop.
- WesleyLivesay 5y ago
  People who have not used a lot of JIRA may not understand that there is "slow" and then there is "JIRA slow" when it comes to webapps.
  - hesdeadjim 5y ago
    Yes, this. We've been using JIRA, Confluence, and Bamboo and dear god does it drive me nuts how slow things are.
- tmpz22 5y ago
  > wait a few seconds for the UI to catch up When loading it absolutely takes 4-6 seconds to complete rendering. If you’re talking about intra-page actions like adding a complex ui element after load you’re right it is better then Jira in that regard.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
packetlost 5y ago
Switching pages and search are infuriatingly slow on Notion. I still love the rest of it, but my god switch to using a local cache for searching or something please

tomComb 5y ago

I find it brutally slow. At first I was a big fan but over time I've mostly stopped using it because I just couldn't stand how slow it is (using it in browser on a laptop). I hang on in the hopes they will address the problem.