6 ms·

4.5 million deaths from Covid so far.

switch007 5y ago
From Covid or with covid (edit: I’m merely asking which stat you’re citing. Source?)? Ie the disease killed them or they tested positive while dying from something else?
- ridaj 5y ago
  There have been clear excess deaths (mortality rate increases) from all causes combined during waves. Most evaluations of excess deaths that I've seen conclude that Covid deaths are undercounted not over counted.
  - switch007 5y ago
    They didn’t cite excess deaths however. Hence my question Again, you say “covid deaths”. That is not precise.
    - rootusrootus 5y ago
      We count flu deaths as 'with flu' instead of 'from flu', so counting covid this way keeps it as close to apples-to-apples as possible.
    - ridaj 5y ago
      Do we say "death from car accidents" or "death with car accident"? Do we discount terminal cancer patients, diabetics and asthmatics from car accident stats because they had a preexisting condition? In the case of covid as with car accidents, it's a distinction without a difference. Yes people are more predisposed to die from covid because of them, but analyses of all-causes excess mortality do not support the hypothesis that there is a large difference between deaths with covid and deaths from covid. EDIT: except when there isn't enough testing, which underreported deaths with covid towards the beginning of the pandemic.
    - JoshTko 5y ago
      Citations are on wiki page. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:COVID-19_pandemic_data https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:COVID-19_pandemic_dat... Does precision matter in this case?
- bserge 5y ago
  Methodologies vary, but comparing deaths to any of the previous years, it is clear that they've increased. And the only major change was the new virus. But of course, never let a good chance go to waste. We'll see an increase in restrictions because of Covid, they're not going away anytime soon.
  - switch007 5y ago
    Then they can cite an excess deaths stat then.
    - vmception 5y ago
      your point here seems to be that people aren't doing that who is "they" in your opinion, because plenty of people and organizations do cite excess death stats are you really so far removed that you need us to provide a citation on excess deaths, this far into things? this reminds me of conversations in May 2020, because this entire conversation was procedurally generated in May 2020. Have you considered the possibility that all your apps marginalized you in this niche where no other information is shown to you everyday for the past year?
  - 988747 5y ago
    The major change, at least in my country, is that healthcare is so focused on COVID that they are neglecting patients with other diseases. So the excess deaths are mostly effect of that.
    - ziml77 5y ago
      There is limited capacity to provide care for people. If people are without COVID dying because COVID cases are taking up that capacity, then COVID is a factor in those deaths as well. One of the earliest fears about the spread of COVID was exactly this issue: too many cases would overwhelm the healthcare system and cause deaths to rise even more. Even if we couldn't stop the spread of the virus, one of the goals was to slow it down to keep the number of simultaneous cases to a minimum.
    - 5y ago
- vmception 5y ago
  the interesting thing I've found about those circles is that the followup is never discussed. they just stick with the earlier information and make it the hill they want to die on. over the past 15 months, many organizations (including the CDC) municipalities (including within the US in democrat and republican areas) and countries have revisited old deaths and current death recording practices, in direct response to this observation and criticism most times they end up finding more COVID deaths, different ones in greater quantity than the incorrectly recorded ones that shouldn't have been counted. sometimes there is a slight temporary downward death count adjustment. and more importantly, the aggregate stats everywhere already account for this. when news reports X-hundred thousand death milestone, its already factored in the corrected numbers. what seems most important to me is that all ailments, especially respiratory ones, have the same recording and accounting discrepancies. if the aforementioned "those circles" were also the "just the flu" circles, then the gravity of COVID relative to the flu (or anything else) would still be seen from the original flawed recording standard, because all prior year’s flu numbers are polluted the same way. makes it hard to view those circles as a better alternative to listen to, when the flaws of the established authorities still point to an aggregate good enough signal.

From Covid or with covid (edit: I’m merely asking which stat you’re citing. Source?)? Ie the disease killed them or they tested positive while dying from something else?

ridaj 5y ago
There have been clear excess deaths (mortality rate increases) from all causes combined during waves. Most evaluations of excess deaths that I've seen conclude that Covid deaths are undercounted not over counted.
- switch007 5y ago
  They didn’t cite excess deaths however. Hence my question Again, you say “covid deaths”. That is not precise.
  - rootusrootus 5y ago
    We count flu deaths as 'with flu' instead of 'from flu', so counting covid this way keeps it as close to apples-to-apples as possible.
  - ridaj 5y ago
    Do we say "death from car accidents" or "death with car accident"? Do we discount terminal cancer patients, diabetics and asthmatics from car accident stats because they had a preexisting condition? In the case of covid as with car accidents, it's a distinction without a difference. Yes people are more predisposed to die from covid because of them, but analyses of all-causes excess mortality do not support the hypothesis that there is a large difference between deaths with covid and deaths from covid. EDIT: except when there isn't enough testing, which underreported deaths with covid towards the beginning of the pandemic.
  - JoshTko 5y ago
    Citations are on wiki page. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:COVID-19_pandemic_data https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:COVID-19_pandemic_dat... Does precision matter in this case?
bserge 5y ago
Methodologies vary, but comparing deaths to any of the previous years, it is clear that they've increased. And the only major change was the new virus. But of course, never let a good chance go to waste. We'll see an increase in restrictions because of Covid, they're not going away anytime soon.
- switch007 5y ago
  Then they can cite an excess deaths stat then.
  - vmception 5y ago
    your point here seems to be that people aren't doing that who is "they" in your opinion, because plenty of people and organizations do cite excess death stats are you really so far removed that you need us to provide a citation on excess deaths, this far into things? this reminds me of conversations in May 2020, because this entire conversation was procedurally generated in May 2020. Have you considered the possibility that all your apps marginalized you in this niche where no other information is shown to you everyday for the past year?
- 988747 5y ago
  The major change, at least in my country, is that healthcare is so focused on COVID that they are neglecting patients with other diseases. So the excess deaths are mostly effect of that.
  - ziml77 5y ago
    There is limited capacity to provide care for people. If people are without COVID dying because COVID cases are taking up that capacity, then COVID is a factor in those deaths as well. One of the earliest fears about the spread of COVID was exactly this issue: too many cases would overwhelm the healthcare system and cause deaths to rise even more. Even if we couldn't stop the spread of the virus, one of the goals was to slow it down to keep the number of simultaneous cases to a minimum.
  - 5y ago
vmception 5y ago
the interesting thing I've found about those circles is that the followup is never discussed. they just stick with the earlier information and make it the hill they want to die on. over the past 15 months, many organizations (including the CDC) municipalities (including within the US in democrat and republican areas) and countries have revisited old deaths and current death recording practices, in direct response to this observation and criticism most times they end up finding more COVID deaths, different ones in greater quantity than the incorrectly recorded ones that shouldn't have been counted. sometimes there is a slight temporary downward death count adjustment. and more importantly, the aggregate stats everywhere already account for this. when news reports X-hundred thousand death milestone, its already factored in the corrected numbers. what seems most important to me is that all ailments, especially respiratory ones, have the same recording and accounting discrepancies. if the aforementioned "those circles" were also the "just the flu" circles, then the gravity of COVID relative to the flu (or anything else) would still be seen from the original flawed recording standard, because all prior year’s flu numbers are polluted the same way. makes it hard to view those circles as a better alternative to listen to, when the flaws of the established authorities still point to an aggregate good enough signal.