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> Considering how many crazy, extremely radicalized people are out there, I'm surprised attacks like this aren't much more common. Maybe because your base assu

by arkh 5y ago

> Considering how many crazy, extremely radicalized people are out there, I'm surprised attacks like this aren't much more common. Maybe because your base assumption is wrong: there are not many of them.

ceejayoz 5y ago
Go to a local school board meeting on masks and be disabused of this notion fairly quickly. edit: Votes on this one have been a wild ride.
- s1artibartfast 5y ago
  Why lump parents that don't want masks with plane bombers and shooters
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    Fair. Terrorists have likely killed far fewer Americans with their actions. We are not good at evaluating the less flashy risks to life. Wearing a seat belt saves a lot more lives than checking shoes at the airport, but we'll fight the seat belt a lot more.
    - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
      100yr ago eugenics proponents were saying the same thing while bemoaning societies unwillingness to fully embrace their solutions. 200yr ago people who wanted to build heavy industry were making the same complaints bemoaning insufficient investment. And so on and so on. ~7 billion people aren't stupid. They just don't share your prioritization of whatever the societal issues you perceive to be most important today are. This trope is just a back handed way to call everyone who doesn't agree with you stupid, or some variation thereof.
      - ceejayoz 5y ago
        "This minor temporary inconvenience I don't like is as bad as eugenics" is its own trope.
        throwaway0a5e 5y ago
        If you can suggest some other ~100yo example of something a lot of people believed would solve a lot of societal problems I'd be happy to edit my comment. In any case, you're either missing the overarching point (the charitable assumption) or you don't want to fight my point head on so you're nitpicking that my examples aren't good enough (the less charitable assumption).
        ceejayoz 5y ago
        > If you can suggest some other ~100yo example of something a lot of people believed would solve a lot of societal problems I'd be happy to edit my comment. Of the same sort of nature as masking during a pandemic: Vaccinations, requiring docs to wear gloves during surgery, etc.
- saba2008 5y ago
  It's a long way from bickering to violence, and then even longer journey from fights to wilful and purposeful killing.
- ctrlp 5y ago
  Are you suggesting that people who disagree on masking children are radicals comparable to jihadi terrorists?
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    I am suggesting you can find plenty of "crazy, extremely radicalized people" in your local community in fairly short order.
  - aww_dang 5y ago
    I initially thought he was claiming the inverse, that mask proponents were extremists. From the perspective of 2019, that wouldn't be an unreasonable assumption, but here we are. Today people are advocating using the force of the state, in other words violence against those who do not share their views on mask mandates.
    - stouset 5y ago
      Can we kindly stop using hyperbole like “using the force of the state, in other words violence” as an argument against literally any governmental policy ever? In this same fantasy universe jack-booted government thugs are beating up people who don’t wear seat belts or who mislabel the nutritional contents on a package of cheese, except that’s just not what ever actually happens in the real world. These kinds of laws can be appropriate when they make society better for us all. To that point, anti-maskers have almost certainly killed more Americans at this point than terrorists could ever have hoped to. You might consider that when attempting to understand why people are seemingly so hard-pressed to get laws requiring their countrymen (and women) to do the literal bare minimum to protect the lives of their neighbors.
      - aww_dang 5y ago
        There's a distinction between a voluntary practice and a compulsory practice. The distinction centers around individuals being compelled by violence. The kind thing to do would be to minimize our use of compulsion as much as pragmatically possible. >Can we kindly stop using hyperbole... anti-maskers have almost certainly killed more Americans
asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
There are plenty of radicalized people, but valuing your life so little that you'll risk it for the cause and having a cause that wants you to kill random civilians is not very common.
- laurent92 5y ago
  Incels, school shooters, bechildrened fathers, it happens a few times per year in most countries. Given they are ready to die, it’s surprising to me when they kill 1 instead of 100 people.
dopamean 5y ago
You're right and the two people who have already replied to you are a great example of how people on the internet love to chime in to "correct" someone about some detail of what they said that misconstrues the point. Obviously when the previous user said "extremely radicalized people" they were talking about the kinds of people radicalized to the point that they're willing to start killing people. You rightly (imo) point out that there aren't that many of them. Then two people chime in to "correct" you. Perhaps writing this reply makes me one of those people as well.

by arkh 5y ago

ceejayoz 5y ago

Go to a local school board meeting on masks and be disabused of this notion fairly quickly. edit: Votes on this one have been a wild ride.

s1artibartfast 5y ago
Why lump parents that don't want masks with plane bombers and shooters
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  Fair. Terrorists have likely killed far fewer Americans with their actions. We are not good at evaluating the less flashy risks to life. Wearing a seat belt saves a lot more lives than checking shoes at the airport, but we'll fight the seat belt a lot more.
  - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
    100yr ago eugenics proponents were saying the same thing while bemoaning societies unwillingness to fully embrace their solutions. 200yr ago people who wanted to build heavy industry were making the same complaints bemoaning insufficient investment. And so on and so on. ~7 billion people aren't stupid. They just don't share your prioritization of whatever the societal issues you perceive to be most important today are. This trope is just a back handed way to call everyone who doesn't agree with you stupid, or some variation thereof.
    - ceejayoz 5y ago
      "This minor temporary inconvenience I don't like is as bad as eugenics" is its own trope.
      - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
        If you can suggest some other ~100yo example of something a lot of people believed would solve a lot of societal problems I'd be happy to edit my comment. In any case, you're either missing the overarching point (the charitable assumption) or you don't want to fight my point head on so you're nitpicking that my examples aren't good enough (the less charitable assumption).
        ceejayoz 5y ago
        > If you can suggest some other ~100yo example of something a lot of people believed would solve a lot of societal problems I'd be happy to edit my comment. Of the same sort of nature as masking during a pandemic: Vaccinations, requiring docs to wear gloves during surgery, etc.
saba2008 5y ago
It's a long way from bickering to violence, and then even longer journey from fights to wilful and purposeful killing.
ctrlp 5y ago
Are you suggesting that people who disagree on masking children are radicals comparable to jihadi terrorists?
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  I am suggesting you can find plenty of "crazy, extremely radicalized people" in your local community in fairly short order.
- aww_dang 5y ago
  I initially thought he was claiming the inverse, that mask proponents were extremists. From the perspective of 2019, that wouldn't be an unreasonable assumption, but here we are. Today people are advocating using the force of the state, in other words violence against those who do not share their views on mask mandates.
  - stouset 5y ago
    Can we kindly stop using hyperbole like “using the force of the state, in other words violence” as an argument against literally any governmental policy ever? In this same fantasy universe jack-booted government thugs are beating up people who don’t wear seat belts or who mislabel the nutritional contents on a package of cheese, except that’s just not what ever actually happens in the real world. These kinds of laws can be appropriate when they make society better for us all. To that point, anti-maskers have almost certainly killed more Americans at this point than terrorists could ever have hoped to. You might consider that when attempting to understand why people are seemingly so hard-pressed to get laws requiring their countrymen (and women) to do the literal bare minimum to protect the lives of their neighbors.
    - aww_dang 5y ago
      There's a distinction between a voluntary practice and a compulsory practice. The distinction centers around individuals being compelled by violence. The kind thing to do would be to minimize our use of compulsion as much as pragmatically possible. >Can we kindly stop using hyperbole... anti-maskers have almost certainly killed more Americans

asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago

There are plenty of radicalized people, but valuing your life so little that you'll risk it for the cause and having a cause that wants you to kill random civilians is not very common.

laurent92 5y ago
Incels, school shooters, bechildrened fathers, it happens a few times per year in most countries. Given they are ready to die, it’s surprising to me when they kill 1 instead of 100 people.

dopamean 5y ago

You're right and the two people who have already replied to you are a great example of how people on the internet love to chime in to "correct" someone about some detail of what they said that misconstrues the point. Obviously when the previous user said "extremely radicalized people" they were talking about the kinds of people radicalized to the point that they're willing to start killing people. You rightly (imo) point out that there aren't that many of them. Then two people chime in to "correct" you. Perhaps writing this reply makes me one of those people as well.