4 ms·

I'm familiar with the etymology. This makes a lot of sense for the bubonic plague. Frankly the Venetians would scoff at what we've done to our societies over a

I'm familiar with the etymology. This makes a lot of sense for the bubonic plague. Frankly the Venetians would scoff at what we've done to our societies over a disease so tame (measured by overall rate of survival, individual circumstances can be tragic). It was also an era when people had few rights, no vaccines, no access to treatment. Surely, we should aspire to be better than 14th-century Venice. To not treat people as if they are nothing more than viral vectors. Instead many would trade away what little control over our own lives we still have in exchange for imagined safety from a virus we will all contract eventually. That the vast majority of people have no issues recovering from. It's not the plague. It's not Ebola. It's not the worst case scenario we were rightfully concerned about in early 2020. How this hasn't sunk in yet for most people is just baffling to me. Then I look around and see lots of motivated reasoning and state-sponsored propaganda about a permanent transition to remote work, increased government surveillance, curtailing the movement of citizens, and other social initiatives various coalitions were already working towards, that are of course suddenly "absolutely necessary" because of a "once in a lifetime pandemic", and it becomes a little clearer.

docmars 5y ago
Spot on, and once the endless waves of variants no longer convince the submissive within our populations that all of these massive changes to life are necessary, the same measures will be used during a questionably endless "climate crisis" to justify the retention of this newfound power they've gained. 1. https://ktrh.iheart.com/content/2021-06-01-after-covid-lockdowns-are-climate-lockdowns-next/ https://ktrh.iheart.com/content/2021-06-01-after-covid-lockd... 2. https://hotair.com/jazz-shaw/2021/09/07/out-covid-lockdowns-in-climate-change-lockdowns-n414196 https://hotair.com/jazz-shaw/2021/09/07/out-covid-lockdowns-... 3. https://www.guardiangazette.com/2021/08/30/climate-lockdowns-coming-soon-after-dhhs-declarers-climate-change-a-public-health-issue/ https://www.guardiangazette.com/2021/08/30/climate-lockdowns... And for those who aren't convinced, I'll be available to accept apologies at my nearest concentration camp.
DiogenesKynikos 5y ago
You said that quarantine was only for sick people. That's simply wrong. It's not the plague, but it has killed around 10 million people worldwide, and 700 thousand people in the US alone. Countries that have a zero-CoVID policy, such as New Zealand, China and Australia (or at least some states in Australia), must use quarantine to prevent reimportation of the virus. For such a policy to work, it is critical that even people who do not appear to be sick be quarantined. You may argue that China, New Zealand et al. should not have pursued a zero-CoVID policy (and in that case, you should be prepared to argue that the 4 million deaths that would likely have resulted in China would have been acceptable), but given that they've pursued this policy, they need to quarantine international travelers, even if they appear to be healthy.
- chitowneats 5y ago
  People die. My loved ones and I have made peace with that. Life is not about avoiding death. 10 million is frankly a drop in the bucket. We don't shut down society and hand over control of our lives over car accidents, heart failure, or anything else that kills hundreds of millions. The behaviors that lead to those deaths are absolutely a form of social contagion and in no world are they less important or relevant because they're not caused by a communicable disease. People could choose to stop the world for those, too. It would probably work. That we choose not to, or rather, that we understand there are tradeoffs involved, does not make us callous murderers. I feel truly sorry for people who believe that "zero Covid" is a possibility. We have documented evidence of animal reservoirs for the disease. You can vaccinate every single person on the planet and it will not eradicate this virus. Particularly now that we are aware that 1) our vaccines are not sterilizing and 2) we have evidence of a vaccine resistant mutation on the horizon. If you want to play whack a mole with restrictions and injections your entire life please do so of your own accord and stop trying to force the rest of us to live in this dystopia with you. I have a short life to live. Humanity has lost its tragic sense. That there are things outside of our control. This reality does however tend to catch up with each and every one of us.
  - DiogenesKynikos 5y ago
    As New Zealand and China have shown, it is within our power to avert almost all deaths from CoVID-19. They have gotten through the pandemic with orders of magnitude fewer deaths per capita and far greater everyday freedoms than most of the world. Quarantine for international travelers is one of the tools they have used. "People die" as an excuse for letting millions of people die of preventable causes is a terrible attitude to take.
    - chitowneats 5y ago
      China is lying and New Zealand is one of the most remote places in the entire world. I hate to be this blunt but you're kidding yourself if you think this was ever an option for the United States. With respect to "preventable causes", I already responded to that point. Most death is preventable. Or at least delay-able. That does not mean everyone agrees with your scorched earth campaigns to prevent it.

docmars 5y ago

Spot on, and once the endless waves of variants no longer convince the submissive within our populations that all of these massive changes to life are necessary, the same measures will be used during a questionably endless "climate crisis" to justify the retention of this newfound power they've gained. 1. https://ktrh.iheart.com/content/2021-06-01-after-covid-lockdowns-are-climate-lockdowns-next/ https://ktrh.iheart.com/content/2021-06-01-after-covid-lockd... 2. https://hotair.com/jazz-shaw/2021/09/07/out-covid-lockdowns-in-climate-change-lockdowns-n414196 https://hotair.com/jazz-shaw/2021/09/07/out-covid-lockdowns-... 3. https://www.guardiangazette.com/2021/08/30/climate-lockdowns-coming-soon-after-dhhs-declarers-climate-change-a-public-health-issue/ https://www.guardiangazette.com/2021/08/30/climate-lockdowns... And for those who aren't convinced, I'll be available to accept apologies at my nearest concentration camp.

DiogenesKynikos 5y ago

You said that quarantine was only for sick people. That's simply wrong. It's not the plague, but it has killed around 10 million people worldwide, and 700 thousand people in the US alone. Countries that have a zero-CoVID policy, such as New Zealand, China and Australia (or at least some states in Australia), must use quarantine to prevent reimportation of the virus. For such a policy to work, it is critical that even people who do not appear to be sick be quarantined. You may argue that China, New Zealand et al. should not have pursued a zero-CoVID policy (and in that case, you should be prepared to argue that the 4 million deaths that would likely have resulted in China would have been acceptable), but given that they've pursued this policy, they need to quarantine international travelers, even if they appear to be healthy.

chitowneats 5y ago
People die. My loved ones and I have made peace with that. Life is not about avoiding death. 10 million is frankly a drop in the bucket. We don't shut down society and hand over control of our lives over car accidents, heart failure, or anything else that kills hundreds of millions. The behaviors that lead to those deaths are absolutely a form of social contagion and in no world are they less important or relevant because they're not caused by a communicable disease. People could choose to stop the world for those, too. It would probably work. That we choose not to, or rather, that we understand there are tradeoffs involved, does not make us callous murderers. I feel truly sorry for people who believe that "zero Covid" is a possibility. We have documented evidence of animal reservoirs for the disease. You can vaccinate every single person on the planet and it will not eradicate this virus. Particularly now that we are aware that 1) our vaccines are not sterilizing and 2) we have evidence of a vaccine resistant mutation on the horizon. If you want to play whack a mole with restrictions and injections your entire life please do so of your own accord and stop trying to force the rest of us to live in this dystopia with you. I have a short life to live. Humanity has lost its tragic sense. That there are things outside of our control. This reality does however tend to catch up with each and every one of us.
- DiogenesKynikos 5y ago
  As New Zealand and China have shown, it is within our power to avert almost all deaths from CoVID-19. They have gotten through the pandemic with orders of magnitude fewer deaths per capita and far greater everyday freedoms than most of the world. Quarantine for international travelers is one of the tools they have used. "People die" as an excuse for letting millions of people die of preventable causes is a terrible attitude to take.
  - chitowneats 5y ago
    China is lying and New Zealand is one of the most remote places in the entire world. I hate to be this blunt but you're kidding yourself if you think this was ever an option for the United States. With respect to "preventable causes", I already responded to that point. Most death is preventable. Or at least delay-able. That does not mean everyone agrees with your scorched earth campaigns to prevent it.