5 ms·

It's normal BTC behavior, BTC spikes up and goes down all the time. 10-15% per day moves happen regularly. Open the price chart and look at it.

ninetenfour 5y ago
Which is why BTC is an asset and not a currency. Currencies need stability of value so that everyone doesn't have to update their prices ever few hours: https://simplicable.com/new/money https://simplicable.com/new/money But maybe in the new world, all prices can be in digital and thus ever changing?
- alias_neo 5y ago
  Would pricing in another unit cause more issues or solve issues? If customers paid a conversion to some unit each time, and conversion is determined at point of sale. One customer may pay 100pBTC for a loaf of bread, and another may pay 101pBTC. Does that help, or make things worse?
  - ninetenfour 5y ago
    You want stability. There are many ways to achieve that. Your example above shows a 1% swing -- which is nothing. Yesterday BTC dropped by 14-18% depending on how you define it. Imaging buying a Tesla and you budgeted for $40K but today it jumped $45K. That would throw off your plans and you wouldn't probably buy it, hoping for things to change. This means that the thing you are using for the transaction is actually preventing commerce because now timing matters. This is a hinderance to commerce and those using it will not have the liquidity/dynamic economy as compared to those using a stable currency. This is a sign you are not using a currency for the transaction but rather an asset. Now USD is stable in parts because it is accepted widely and everything is denominated in it. If everything was denominated in BTC, then it would have similar stability. Basically the more things are denominated in a particular currency/asset, the more stable it becomes.
    - alias_neo 5y ago
      Thanks for explaining, that makes sense.
- bufferoverflow 5y ago
  So by your strange definition unstable currencies are not currencies. Is Bolivar not a currency then?
  - ninetenfour 5y ago
    > Is Bolivar not a currency then? It doesn't meet the requirements of a good currency. There is hyper inflation and they have redenominated it a few times now and are planning on doing it again. Is a boat with a huge hole in its hull a good boat? Technically it is probably a boat, but it isn't what one would consider a good and desirable boat and it doesn't allow one to do what one can usually do with boats. This is the same with BTC. You can call it a currency, but if you use it as a currency it doesn't currently exhibit the properties that one wants from a currency.
    - bufferoverflow 5y ago
      > It doesn't meet the requirements of a good currency Aaand you just moved the goal posts. Notice how you switched your argument from "currency" to "good currency". So dishonest.
      - ninetenfour 5y ago
        > Aaand you just moved the goal posts. Notice how you switched your argument from "currency" to "good currency". So dishonest. I think you want a binary world where things are either A or B and not somewhere in between. BTC is being used as a currency in El Salvador and it is government mandated as a currency. Thus it is a currency by that definition. But my argument is that it isn't a good currency based on its properties (which I listed some and also linked to an article on desirable principles of a currency), rather it has the qualities of an asset. I think I haven't changed what I am arguing, but I think you misunderstood my argument as something much more simplistic than what I was actually saying.
        chucksta 5y ago
        then you used bad language >Which is why BTC is an asset and not a currency. Is a pretty straight forward sentence
- q1w2 5y ago
  If it's not a good currency, then it's not much of an asset either.
grey-area 5y ago
That’s just another reason (along with all the others) it should never be imposed as a currency, particularly in a country with lots of people living near the poverty line. Imagine leaving home not sure if you can afford the bus ride to work or food to eat because of volatility.
- nextlevelwizard 5y ago
  But if your rent is X BTC/mo how does the BTC relation to USD change your rent or make you go hungry? A 0.0001BTC sandwitch will be 0.0001BTC tomorrow as well. What we have here is people using bitcoin as proxy for other currencies.
  - UncleMeat 5y ago
    I find it very funny that BTC advocates bring this up all the time, yet inflation of USD is considered to be an enormous threat. Surely both of these things cannot be true.
    - nextlevelwizard 5y ago
      I am not advocate for Bitcoin, but I assume prices in BTC would raise with inflation like any other currency
      - ninetenfour 5y ago
        BTC is designed to be highly limited in supply and thus all prices denominated in BTC should drop over time by design of the currency. Everything else in society, if it was all on BTC, would do similarly. Basically your salary this year should be smaller than it was last year but your buying power should be similar. This encourages people to hold BTC because its relative value increases over time. Thus BTC by being deflationary encourages holding and not spending. It will lead to a less dynamic economy than if we had an inflationary currency which encouraged spending/investment.
        5y ago
mettamage 5y ago
IMO this is a likely explanation (includes timestamp): https://youtu.be/lEromo3ly4Q?t=542 https://youtu.be/lEromo3ly4Q?t=542 Wild volatility can occur whenever a rich person or rich group liquidates a lot of their holdings.
me_me_me 5y ago
At this stage its a clickbait/propaganda article. Price went down few thousands, that's like ever other Tuesday in BTC world.
- seanw444 5y ago
  To me it sounds like a bunch of big-state news agencies trying to scare everyone away from a more distributed economy.

ninetenfour 5y ago

Which is why BTC is an asset and not a currency. Currencies need stability of value so that everyone doesn't have to update their prices ever few hours: https://simplicable.com/new/money https://simplicable.com/new/money But maybe in the new world, all prices can be in digital and thus ever changing?

alias_neo 5y ago
Would pricing in another unit cause more issues or solve issues? If customers paid a conversion to some unit each time, and conversion is determined at point of sale. One customer may pay 100pBTC for a loaf of bread, and another may pay 101pBTC. Does that help, or make things worse?
- ninetenfour 5y ago
  You want stability. There are many ways to achieve that. Your example above shows a 1% swing -- which is nothing. Yesterday BTC dropped by 14-18% depending on how you define it. Imaging buying a Tesla and you budgeted for $40K but today it jumped $45K. That would throw off your plans and you wouldn't probably buy it, hoping for things to change. This means that the thing you are using for the transaction is actually preventing commerce because now timing matters. This is a hinderance to commerce and those using it will not have the liquidity/dynamic economy as compared to those using a stable currency. This is a sign you are not using a currency for the transaction but rather an asset. Now USD is stable in parts because it is accepted widely and everything is denominated in it. If everything was denominated in BTC, then it would have similar stability. Basically the more things are denominated in a particular currency/asset, the more stable it becomes.
  - alias_neo 5y ago
    Thanks for explaining, that makes sense.
bufferoverflow 5y ago
So by your strange definition unstable currencies are not currencies. Is Bolivar not a currency then?
- ninetenfour 5y ago
  > Is Bolivar not a currency then? It doesn't meet the requirements of a good currency. There is hyper inflation and they have redenominated it a few times now and are planning on doing it again. Is a boat with a huge hole in its hull a good boat? Technically it is probably a boat, but it isn't what one would consider a good and desirable boat and it doesn't allow one to do what one can usually do with boats. This is the same with BTC. You can call it a currency, but if you use it as a currency it doesn't currently exhibit the properties that one wants from a currency.
  - bufferoverflow 5y ago
    > It doesn't meet the requirements of a good currency Aaand you just moved the goal posts. Notice how you switched your argument from "currency" to "good currency". So dishonest.
    - ninetenfour 5y ago
      > Aaand you just moved the goal posts. Notice how you switched your argument from "currency" to "good currency". So dishonest. I think you want a binary world where things are either A or B and not somewhere in between. BTC is being used as a currency in El Salvador and it is government mandated as a currency. Thus it is a currency by that definition. But my argument is that it isn't a good currency based on its properties (which I listed some and also linked to an article on desirable principles of a currency), rather it has the qualities of an asset. I think I haven't changed what I am arguing, but I think you misunderstood my argument as something much more simplistic than what I was actually saying.
      - chucksta 5y ago
        then you used bad language >Which is why BTC is an asset and not a currency. Is a pretty straight forward sentence
q1w2 5y ago
If it's not a good currency, then it's not much of an asset either.

grey-area 5y ago

That’s just another reason (along with all the others) it should never be imposed as a currency, particularly in a country with lots of people living near the poverty line. Imagine leaving home not sure if you can afford the bus ride to work or food to eat because of volatility.

nextlevelwizard 5y ago
But if your rent is X BTC/mo how does the BTC relation to USD change your rent or make you go hungry? A 0.0001BTC sandwitch will be 0.0001BTC tomorrow as well. What we have here is people using bitcoin as proxy for other currencies.
- UncleMeat 5y ago
  I find it very funny that BTC advocates bring this up all the time, yet inflation of USD is considered to be an enormous threat. Surely both of these things cannot be true.
  - nextlevelwizard 5y ago
    I am not advocate for Bitcoin, but I assume prices in BTC would raise with inflation like any other currency
    - ninetenfour 5y ago
      BTC is designed to be highly limited in supply and thus all prices denominated in BTC should drop over time by design of the currency. Everything else in society, if it was all on BTC, would do similarly. Basically your salary this year should be smaller than it was last year but your buying power should be similar. This encourages people to hold BTC because its relative value increases over time. Thus BTC by being deflationary encourages holding and not spending. It will lead to a less dynamic economy than if we had an inflationary currency which encouraged spending/investment.
      - 5y ago

mettamage 5y ago

IMO this is a likely explanation (includes timestamp): https://youtu.be/lEromo3ly4Q?t=542 https://youtu.be/lEromo3ly4Q?t=542 Wild volatility can occur whenever a rich person or rich group liquidates a lot of their holdings.

me_me_me 5y ago

At this stage its a clickbait/propaganda article. Price went down few thousands, that's like ever other Tuesday in BTC world.

seanw444 5y ago
To me it sounds like a bunch of big-state news agencies trying to scare everyone away from a more distributed economy.