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How did Australians become like this? In my imagination, my American ancestors were quite similar to yours. And yet...

Nursie 5y ago
Become like what? Do you have an argument against quarantine? Would tens of thousands of deaths been better than asking travellers to check in for a couple of weeks on arrival, during a pandemic? I’m really not sure what point you’re trying to make. I'm British by the way. The UK also has guarded quarantine centres in hotels for people coming in from what it considers “red zones”
- chitowneats 5y ago
  Quarantine for what? That's what you do with sick people. Whatever is going on in Australia has long ago left the realm of sane quarantine procedure. It will be 2022 soon, and the Australians are trying to prevent interstate spread of COVID-19. It's madness. Responding to your edit: still madness
  - Nursie 5y ago
    Quarantine for coronavirus, in a pandemic that’s claimed millions of lives. You quarantine people (and animal) who might be sick, that’s the point of it. It doesn’t look like madness to me when you look at the comparative death rates.
    - kongin 5y ago
      > Quarantine for coronavirus, in a pandemic that’s claimed millions of lives. So are we going to do a quarantine for the flu next? A pandemic that claims up to a 2 million lives a year globally: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017%E2%80%932018_United_States_flu_season https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017%E2%80%932018_United_State...
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - docmars 5y ago
        Precisely. It is the best cover up for global domination while distracting populations with concern trolling around a virus that is not all that significantly worse than the flu given the level of risk across all age groups. Heart failure and car accidents claim a higher risk.
      - DiogenesKynikos 5y ago
        For pandemic flu, yes, quarantine would be reasonable. The 1918 pandemic claimed tens of millions of lives.
        kongin 5y ago
        The 2017 flu season killed 200 Americans per million, world wide that amounts to 1,400,000 people. Should we have locked down in 2017?
        DiogenesKynikos 5y ago
        Which means that CoVID-19 has had about 10 times the impact as seasonal flu. That's extremely serious.
        kongin 5y ago
        Which means that a bad flu season has had about 10% the impact of covid. That's extremely serious. Should we have locked down in 2017? What number of deaths is the magic one where we decide that it's too much and we need to close everything for years on end?
        DiogenesKynikos 5y ago
        There's no magic number, but CoVID-19 is the most serious public health emergency in probably a century. > we need to close everything for years on end? Countries that properly managed the pandemic locked down hard for a few weeks, eliminated the virus, and then reopened. They've been back to normal (or something close to it) for most of the time since.
  - iamthemonster 5y ago
    I'm in Western Australia. I'm delighted with prevention of interstate Covid. The freedom to do whatever you want is pretty enjoyable to be honest, and not worrying that family members will die of Covid is even better.
    - logicchains 5y ago
      Do you worry about family members in lockdowned states drinking themselves to death? In Canada lockdowns killed more under-65s than covid: https://tnc.news/2021/07/18/lockdowns-killed-more-canadians-under-65-than-covid-19-statscan/ https://tnc.news/2021/07/18/lockdowns-killed-more-canadians-...
      - chitowneats 5y ago
        New South Wales has a solution for this. Limit the alcohol allowance of individuals under lockdown: https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/news/nsw-health-limits-residents-of-lockeddown-tower-block-to-six-beers-per-day/news-story/0e387ceccee145a611ddb6e38872d3d5 https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/news/nsw-health-lim... I wish this was a joke, or fake news. But no, once they control where you can go, when you can go there, etc, it's not a big jump for them to demand control over what you put in your body. It's for your own safety, after all.
      - bernulli 5y ago
        Of course it did, exactly because there was a lockdown that prevented many COVID deaths. If there hadn't been a lockdown, many more people would have died from COVID than now died from drinking. Sweden for example, famous for its non-lockdown, suffered 10 times as many COVID deaths than neighboring Norway with lock-down (and alcohol).
  - DiogenesKynikos 5y ago
    Quarantine has never been strictly for sick people. It is for people who might possibly be infected. You can see this in the etymolgy of the word "quarantine": it refers to the forty days (quarantena in Venetian) that people arriving by ship were required to wait on board before disembarking in Venice during the time of the plague. The whole idea is to wait for the full incubation period of a pathogen, to make sure someone is not infected, before letting them out in the general society. In contrast, when someone is separated from society because they are known to be infected, that is called "isolation."
    - chitowneats 5y ago
      I'm familiar with the etymology. This makes a lot of sense for the bubonic plague. Frankly the Venetians would scoff at what we've done to our societies over a disease so tame (measured by overall rate of survival, individual circumstances can be tragic). It was also an era when people had few rights, no vaccines, no access to treatment. Surely, we should aspire to be better than 14th-century Venice. To not treat people as if they are nothing more than viral vectors. Instead many would trade away what little control over our own lives we still have in exchange for imagined safety from a virus we will all contract eventually. That the vast majority of people have no issues recovering from. It's not the plague. It's not Ebola. It's not the worst case scenario we were rightfully concerned about in early 2020. How this hasn't sunk in yet for most people is just baffling to me. Then I look around and see lots of motivated reasoning and state-sponsored propaganda about a permanent transition to remote work, increased government surveillance, curtailing the movement of citizens, and other social initiatives various coalitions were already working towards, that are of course suddenly "absolutely necessary" because of a "once in a lifetime pandemic", and it becomes a little clearer.
      - docmars 5y ago
        Spot on, and once the endless waves of variants no longer convince the submissive within our populations that all of these massive changes to life are necessary, the same measures will be used during a questionably endless "climate crisis" to justify the retention of this newfound power they've gained. 1. https://ktrh.iheart.com/content/2021-06-01-after-covid-lockdowns-are-climate-lockdowns-next/ https://ktrh.iheart.com/content/2021-06-01-after-covid-lockd... 2. https://hotair.com/jazz-shaw/2021/09/07/out-covid-lockdowns-in-climate-change-lockdowns-n414196 https://hotair.com/jazz-shaw/2021/09/07/out-covid-lockdowns-... 3. https://www.guardiangazette.com/2021/08/30/climate-lockdowns-coming-soon-after-dhhs-declarers-climate-change-a-public-health-issue/ https://www.guardiangazette.com/2021/08/30/climate-lockdowns... And for those who aren't convinced, I'll be available to accept apologies at my nearest concentration camp.
- crazym8 5y ago
  >Become like what? [...] >Would tens of thousands of deaths [...] Like that. It's absolutely insane to see young, Australian people completely embrace the Covid propaganda and totalitarian nonsense. Say what you want about boomers, but at least they used to be somewhat cool in their 20s, during the 70s. Having unprotected sex, doing drugs, having long hair, listening to rock'n'roll, protesting the wars. In Australia we have 25-year-old boomers, scared of absolutely everything, and cheering on the government to govern us even harder. A complete nightmare.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
kongin 5y ago
It's a third of Australia that's gone insane. The rest have checked out and completely ignored it. It's like a long holiday where you get paid to pretend you work. But you can't say that in polite company so you just have ~40 percent compliance with whatever insanity is going on now. Hilariously enough the compliance from police is lower than from the general population so basically we have politicians and the terminally online talking about masks, jabs and sign ins and the people who are supposed to enforce it not being bothered with it. Standing in front of the super market something like one in three pull out their phone, unlock it, point it at the check in qr code and not log in. I'm reminded of the latter days of the USSR where no one took anything the government said seriously and just did whatever they felt like. Which does not bode well for the current incarnation of Australia long term.
- sk2020 5y ago
  >latter days of the USSR Is it better to prolong the perverse, decadent rule of the senators and consuls or to embrace Clovis? Hit ‘em with your Coriolanus swag.
  - wutbrodo 5y ago
    I'm familiar with Clovis (the Frankish king) and Coriolanus (the Shakespearean Roman), but I don't follow the connection you're trying to draw
    - sk2020 5y ago
      I mean to say the modern courtiers of the decrepit political class are the problem and warrior-kings at the head of barbarians are the solution. Hoppe would call this natural order.

Become like what? Do you have an argument against quarantine? Would tens of thousands of deaths been better than asking travellers to check in for a couple of weeks on arrival, during a pandemic? I’m really not sure what point you’re trying to make. I'm British by the way. The UK also has guarded quarantine centres in hotels for people coming in from what it considers “red zones”

chitowneats 5y ago
Quarantine for what? That's what you do with sick people. Whatever is going on in Australia has long ago left the realm of sane quarantine procedure. It will be 2022 soon, and the Australians are trying to prevent interstate spread of COVID-19. It's madness. Responding to your edit: still madness
- Nursie 5y ago
  Quarantine for coronavirus, in a pandemic that’s claimed millions of lives. You quarantine people (and animal) who might be sick, that’s the point of it. It doesn’t look like madness to me when you look at the comparative death rates.
  - kongin 5y ago
    > Quarantine for coronavirus, in a pandemic that’s claimed millions of lives. So are we going to do a quarantine for the flu next? A pandemic that claims up to a 2 million lives a year globally: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017%E2%80%932018_United_States_flu_season https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017%E2%80%932018_United_State...
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - docmars 5y ago
      Precisely. It is the best cover up for global domination while distracting populations with concern trolling around a virus that is not all that significantly worse than the flu given the level of risk across all age groups. Heart failure and car accidents claim a higher risk.
    - DiogenesKynikos 5y ago
      For pandemic flu, yes, quarantine would be reasonable. The 1918 pandemic claimed tens of millions of lives.
      - kongin 5y ago
        The 2017 flu season killed 200 Americans per million, world wide that amounts to 1,400,000 people. Should we have locked down in 2017?
        DiogenesKynikos 5y ago
        Which means that CoVID-19 has had about 10 times the impact as seasonal flu. That's extremely serious.
        kongin 5y ago
        Which means that a bad flu season has had about 10% the impact of covid. That's extremely serious. Should we have locked down in 2017? What number of deaths is the magic one where we decide that it's too much and we need to close everything for years on end?
        DiogenesKynikos 5y ago
        There's no magic number, but CoVID-19 is the most serious public health emergency in probably a century. > we need to close everything for years on end? Countries that properly managed the pandemic locked down hard for a few weeks, eliminated the virus, and then reopened. They've been back to normal (or something close to it) for most of the time since.
- iamthemonster 5y ago
  I'm in Western Australia. I'm delighted with prevention of interstate Covid. The freedom to do whatever you want is pretty enjoyable to be honest, and not worrying that family members will die of Covid is even better.
  - logicchains 5y ago
    Do you worry about family members in lockdowned states drinking themselves to death? In Canada lockdowns killed more under-65s than covid: https://tnc.news/2021/07/18/lockdowns-killed-more-canadians-under-65-than-covid-19-statscan/ https://tnc.news/2021/07/18/lockdowns-killed-more-canadians-...
    - chitowneats 5y ago
      New South Wales has a solution for this. Limit the alcohol allowance of individuals under lockdown: https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/news/nsw-health-limits-residents-of-lockeddown-tower-block-to-six-beers-per-day/news-story/0e387ceccee145a611ddb6e38872d3d5 https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/news/nsw-health-lim... I wish this was a joke, or fake news. But no, once they control where you can go, when you can go there, etc, it's not a big jump for them to demand control over what you put in your body. It's for your own safety, after all.
    - bernulli 5y ago
      Of course it did, exactly because there was a lockdown that prevented many COVID deaths. If there hadn't been a lockdown, many more people would have died from COVID than now died from drinking. Sweden for example, famous for its non-lockdown, suffered 10 times as many COVID deaths than neighboring Norway with lock-down (and alcohol).
- DiogenesKynikos 5y ago
  Quarantine has never been strictly for sick people. It is for people who might possibly be infected. You can see this in the etymolgy of the word "quarantine": it refers to the forty days (quarantena in Venetian) that people arriving by ship were required to wait on board before disembarking in Venice during the time of the plague. The whole idea is to wait for the full incubation period of a pathogen, to make sure someone is not infected, before letting them out in the general society. In contrast, when someone is separated from society because they are known to be infected, that is called "isolation."
  - chitowneats 5y ago
    I'm familiar with the etymology. This makes a lot of sense for the bubonic plague. Frankly the Venetians would scoff at what we've done to our societies over a disease so tame (measured by overall rate of survival, individual circumstances can be tragic). It was also an era when people had few rights, no vaccines, no access to treatment. Surely, we should aspire to be better than 14th-century Venice. To not treat people as if they are nothing more than viral vectors. Instead many would trade away what little control over our own lives we still have in exchange for imagined safety from a virus we will all contract eventually. That the vast majority of people have no issues recovering from. It's not the plague. It's not Ebola. It's not the worst case scenario we were rightfully concerned about in early 2020. How this hasn't sunk in yet for most people is just baffling to me. Then I look around and see lots of motivated reasoning and state-sponsored propaganda about a permanent transition to remote work, increased government surveillance, curtailing the movement of citizens, and other social initiatives various coalitions were already working towards, that are of course suddenly "absolutely necessary" because of a "once in a lifetime pandemic", and it becomes a little clearer.
    - docmars 5y ago
      Spot on, and once the endless waves of variants no longer convince the submissive within our populations that all of these massive changes to life are necessary, the same measures will be used during a questionably endless "climate crisis" to justify the retention of this newfound power they've gained. 1. https://ktrh.iheart.com/content/2021-06-01-after-covid-lockdowns-are-climate-lockdowns-next/ https://ktrh.iheart.com/content/2021-06-01-after-covid-lockd... 2. https://hotair.com/jazz-shaw/2021/09/07/out-covid-lockdowns-in-climate-change-lockdowns-n414196 https://hotair.com/jazz-shaw/2021/09/07/out-covid-lockdowns-... 3. https://www.guardiangazette.com/2021/08/30/climate-lockdowns-coming-soon-after-dhhs-declarers-climate-change-a-public-health-issue/ https://www.guardiangazette.com/2021/08/30/climate-lockdowns... And for those who aren't convinced, I'll be available to accept apologies at my nearest concentration camp.
crazym8 5y ago
>Become like what? [...] >Would tens of thousands of deaths [...] Like that. It's absolutely insane to see young, Australian people completely embrace the Covid propaganda and totalitarian nonsense. Say what you want about boomers, but at least they used to be somewhat cool in their 20s, during the 70s. Having unprotected sex, doing drugs, having long hair, listening to rock'n'roll, protesting the wars. In Australia we have 25-year-old boomers, scared of absolutely everything, and cheering on the government to govern us even harder. A complete nightmare.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

kongin 5y ago

It's a third of Australia that's gone insane. The rest have checked out and completely ignored it. It's like a long holiday where you get paid to pretend you work. But you can't say that in polite company so you just have ~40 percent compliance with whatever insanity is going on now. Hilariously enough the compliance from police is lower than from the general population so basically we have politicians and the terminally online talking about masks, jabs and sign ins and the people who are supposed to enforce it not being bothered with it. Standing in front of the super market something like one in three pull out their phone, unlock it, point it at the check in qr code and not log in. I'm reminded of the latter days of the USSR where no one took anything the government said seriously and just did whatever they felt like. Which does not bode well for the current incarnation of Australia long term.

sk2020 5y ago
>latter days of the USSR Is it better to prolong the perverse, decadent rule of the senators and consuls or to embrace Clovis? Hit ‘em with your Coriolanus swag.
- wutbrodo 5y ago
  I'm familiar with Clovis (the Frankish king) and Coriolanus (the Shakespearean Roman), but I don't follow the connection you're trying to draw
  - sk2020 5y ago
    I mean to say the modern courtiers of the decrepit political class are the problem and warrior-kings at the head of barbarians are the solution. Hoppe would call this natural order.