4 ms·

On top of that, from outside, US election system does seem... Easily rigged. If my country allowed to vote without a national ID, I'd not trust the outcome of

by mantas 5y ago

On top of that, from outside, US election system does seem... Easily rigged. If my country allowed to vote without a national ID, I'd not trust the outcome of such election at all.

Ekaros 5y ago
Or postal vote... Like how would you ever secure such system to acceptable level. Maybe it is barely acceptable in limited scale. But in general it seems open to exploitation and something that would only be used in countries without real democracy.
- amanaplanacanal 5y ago
  How would you corrupt a postal election without getting caught? Maybe you could get a handful of bad votes in, but I don’t know how you could do it at scale.
  - mantas 5y ago
    Reading how last US presidential election was caught... You could get hold of someone else's ballot. No need to show your ID to cast in your vote.
    - amanaplanacanal 5y ago
      That only works if the real voter doesn’t show up.
      - mantas 5y ago
        Given the usual turnout, there's a pretty good chance...
  - dogleash 5y ago
    The problem at scale is that you no longer have a secret ballot.
    - amanaplanacanal 5y ago
      Where I live there are nested envelopes. The outside envelope is associated with you, but the inner envelope that has your vote is not. So they can see that you voted, but not how you voted.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
  - mantas 5y ago
    A frequent schema in my country is to buy votes from local drunks. Go to a local bar with minivan. Grab a bunch of people, drive them to polling station, drive them back, buy beer and give some change. This doesn't scale that much because you can't verify the vote and you're limited to few days. It's pretty easy to spot it too. Other politics' support is on the lookout for returning cars and scout cheap bars too. Now move this schema to postal voting. You've plenty of time to buy voting ballots off drunks. And you can fill them in yourself. It's much harder to spot too.
- mantas 5y ago
  My country does have postal vote and I do trust it. This is how we run it: - mail-in is limited to municipality buildings - mail-in is limited to wednesday-thursday in a week leading up to the election day - you can go to any municipality regardless of your legal address - you have to show your ID to get voting papers - election officials and community supervisors are present in voting hall - votes are counted along with normal votes after polling station closes on sunday
  - Ekaros 5y ago
    I don't call that postal voting, but early voting. Entirely separate system.
    - mantas 5y ago
      Fair enough. Early voting does solve most (if not all) of the issues that pure postal voting solves though.
      - Ekaros 5y ago
        Yeah, and I don't have anything against it as custody of votes is clears as is who was the voter. On other hand systems where you just put ballot in regular mail or some box without oversight and verification is done by signature... No words...
scohesc 5y ago
It's insane to me to see so many other countries have ways to verify you're a citizen of the country when going to vote, but in America it's such a controversial issue that anybody mentioning it is immediately bombarded with heinous accusations and name-calling.
- tablespoon 5y ago
  > It's insane to me to see so many other countries have ways to verify you're a citizen of the country when going to vote, but in America it's such a controversial issue that anybody mentioning it is immediately bombarded with heinous accusations and name-calling. Yeah. It's so stupid that the Democrats don't knock the wind out of the Republicans' sails by embracing voter ID requirements coupled with an intense, funded push to provide an ID to everyone who lacks one (e.g. have government employees who go around to places like homeless shelters and jump through all the bureaucratic hoops and pay all the fees to get someone an ID). Lacking official ID is a serious hindrance to modern life (and fixing that can have a lot of Catch 22s), so getting people ID is a great way to help the disadvantaged.
  - kwere 5y ago
    Bcs maybe Blue corp dont want to make itself useless solving problems? Its the loop of getting votes by crying Wolf as opposition even while ruling and never solving the issues to use them as votes grab next cycle

by mantas 5y ago

On top of that, from outside, US election system does seem... Easily rigged. If my country allowed to vote without a national ID, I'd not trust the outcome of such election at all.

Ekaros 5y ago

Or postal vote... Like how would you ever secure such system to acceptable level. Maybe it is barely acceptable in limited scale. But in general it seems open to exploitation and something that would only be used in countries without real democracy.

amanaplanacanal 5y ago
How would you corrupt a postal election without getting caught? Maybe you could get a handful of bad votes in, but I don’t know how you could do it at scale.
- mantas 5y ago
  Reading how last US presidential election was caught... You could get hold of someone else's ballot. No need to show your ID to cast in your vote.
  - amanaplanacanal 5y ago
    That only works if the real voter doesn’t show up.
    - mantas 5y ago
      Given the usual turnout, there's a pretty good chance...
- dogleash 5y ago
  The problem at scale is that you no longer have a secret ballot.
  - amanaplanacanal 5y ago
    Where I live there are nested envelopes. The outside envelope is associated with you, but the inner envelope that has your vote is not. So they can see that you voted, but not how you voted.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
- mantas 5y ago
  A frequent schema in my country is to buy votes from local drunks. Go to a local bar with minivan. Grab a bunch of people, drive them to polling station, drive them back, buy beer and give some change. This doesn't scale that much because you can't verify the vote and you're limited to few days. It's pretty easy to spot it too. Other politics' support is on the lookout for returning cars and scout cheap bars too. Now move this schema to postal voting. You've plenty of time to buy voting ballots off drunks. And you can fill them in yourself. It's much harder to spot too.
mantas 5y ago
My country does have postal vote and I do trust it. This is how we run it: - mail-in is limited to municipality buildings - mail-in is limited to wednesday-thursday in a week leading up to the election day - you can go to any municipality regardless of your legal address - you have to show your ID to get voting papers - election officials and community supervisors are present in voting hall - votes are counted along with normal votes after polling station closes on sunday
- Ekaros 5y ago
  I don't call that postal voting, but early voting. Entirely separate system.
  - mantas 5y ago
    Fair enough. Early voting does solve most (if not all) of the issues that pure postal voting solves though.
    - Ekaros 5y ago
      Yeah, and I don't have anything against it as custody of votes is clears as is who was the voter. On other hand systems where you just put ballot in regular mail or some box without oversight and verification is done by signature... No words...

scohesc 5y ago

It's insane to me to see so many other countries have ways to verify you're a citizen of the country when going to vote, but in America it's such a controversial issue that anybody mentioning it is immediately bombarded with heinous accusations and name-calling.

tablespoon 5y ago
> It's insane to me to see so many other countries have ways to verify you're a citizen of the country when going to vote, but in America it's such a controversial issue that anybody mentioning it is immediately bombarded with heinous accusations and name-calling. Yeah. It's so stupid that the Democrats don't knock the wind out of the Republicans' sails by embracing voter ID requirements coupled with an intense, funded push to provide an ID to everyone who lacks one (e.g. have government employees who go around to places like homeless shelters and jump through all the bureaucratic hoops and pay all the fees to get someone an ID). Lacking official ID is a serious hindrance to modern life (and fixing that can have a lot of Catch 22s), so getting people ID is a great way to help the disadvantaged.
- kwere 5y ago
  Bcs maybe Blue corp dont want to make itself useless solving problems? Its the loop of getting votes by crying Wolf as opposition even while ruling and never solving the issues to use them as votes grab next cycle