6 ms·

To me, the most important bit is this question: > When everything is mainstream, when attractive and popular kids are programming computers, immersed in role-p

To me, the most important bit is this question: > When everything is mainstream, when attractive and popular kids are programming computers, immersed in role-playing games, fluent in comic books, writing the rules and setting the boundaries, what becomes of the kids who still can’t fit in? Dear’s book made me wonder who we’re missing. Where are their steam tunnels, real or imagined? Where do they go when they’re tired of being told how to be? But... what's the answer?

sdoering 5y ago
For me, the mainstream takeover of subcultures has always felt very superficial. The subcultures I've been a part of (Pen&Paper, LARP, early Internet, Gothic) have registered that the masses have taken elements as (often purely visual) tokens and this has often led to a "glut" of new people entering into the subculture, but this was usually not long lasting and was often mostly also purely superficial. There were always people (and niches) in the depths in which one could feel comfortable. However - I must admit - it became harder to find these depths and to get through the superficiality. The niches have become even more self-isolated and it has become more difficult for newcomers with real interest to immerse themselves.
- Akronymus 5y ago
  One of the biggest annoyances for me is when people enter some subculture, then demand the subculture to change to acommodate them rather than them changing to acommodate the subculture. I had it happen a few times that it changed to something unrecognizable to me and thus I left it for a new one. So at this point, I feel like gatekeeping, (ofc not based on race gender or such things, but rather specifics to the subculture) has become mandatory, even at the cost of keeping a, possibly sizeable, portion of genuinly interested people out.
  - marksbrown 5y ago
    Similarly of course, you're describing the eternal September [1] which itself is a rather dated reference at this point! [1]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September
    - sdoering 5y ago
      Thanks for the reminder. I knew somewhere in the back of my head that there was this reference. I came later. I never experienced 1993, September. My first glimpse into this net was in fall 1997. So I was part of the eternal September so to speak.
  - corpdronejuly 5y ago
    The biggest thing to keep in mind when "gatekeeping" is that it's more important to step up and take on the role of a "initiator" or "sponsor" into the culture, and pass on the community knowledge that makes the culture a special place.
    - krapp 5y ago
      But then we can't look down on the new people and complain about how their fun is ruining our fun /s.
      - Akronymus 5y ago
        If they come in with plans to change the subculture...
    - Akronymus 5y ago
      Of course assimilating the new people would be the best outcome. Sadly I have ran into enough that go in with the intention of changing the subculture that I am now VERY skeptical of any new person.
vharuck 5y ago
Tabletop games, and any activity where you meet with a small group of regulars, is resistant to the perils of popularity. More people playing D&D means the publisher can publish more books and offer accessories, because they're confident there's a market. But my core playgroup hasn't changed much for years. We meet new people at open events, and if we like then, we'll invite them to join our regular group. It's naturally resistant to mainstream dilution. More so because it's a game where we write the narrative, choose the themes, and freely change the rules.

sdoering 5y ago

For me, the mainstream takeover of subcultures has always felt very superficial. The subcultures I've been a part of (Pen&Paper, LARP, early Internet, Gothic) have registered that the masses have taken elements as (often purely visual) tokens and this has often led to a "glut" of new people entering into the subculture, but this was usually not long lasting and was often mostly also purely superficial. There were always people (and niches) in the depths in which one could feel comfortable. However - I must admit - it became harder to find these depths and to get through the superficiality. The niches have become even more self-isolated and it has become more difficult for newcomers with real interest to immerse themselves.

Akronymus 5y ago
One of the biggest annoyances for me is when people enter some subculture, then demand the subculture to change to acommodate them rather than them changing to acommodate the subculture. I had it happen a few times that it changed to something unrecognizable to me and thus I left it for a new one. So at this point, I feel like gatekeeping, (ofc not based on race gender or such things, but rather specifics to the subculture) has become mandatory, even at the cost of keeping a, possibly sizeable, portion of genuinly interested people out.
- marksbrown 5y ago
  Similarly of course, you're describing the eternal September [1] which itself is a rather dated reference at this point! [1]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September
  - sdoering 5y ago
    Thanks for the reminder. I knew somewhere in the back of my head that there was this reference. I came later. I never experienced 1993, September. My first glimpse into this net was in fall 1997. So I was part of the eternal September so to speak.
- corpdronejuly 5y ago
  The biggest thing to keep in mind when "gatekeeping" is that it's more important to step up and take on the role of a "initiator" or "sponsor" into the culture, and pass on the community knowledge that makes the culture a special place.
  - krapp 5y ago
    But then we can't look down on the new people and complain about how their fun is ruining our fun /s.
    - Akronymus 5y ago
      If they come in with plans to change the subculture...
  - Akronymus 5y ago
    Of course assimilating the new people would be the best outcome. Sadly I have ran into enough that go in with the intention of changing the subculture that I am now VERY skeptical of any new person.

vharuck 5y ago

Tabletop games, and any activity where you meet with a small group of regulars, is resistant to the perils of popularity. More people playing D&D means the publisher can publish more books and offer accessories, because they're confident there's a market. But my core playgroup hasn't changed much for years. We meet new people at open events, and if we like then, we'll invite them to join our regular group. It's naturally resistant to mainstream dilution. More so because it's a game where we write the narrative, choose the themes, and freely change the rules.