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> In some like the UK, that trust was misplaced, and compliance with isolation rules was under 50%. More like, people in the UK more correctly assessed the ris

> In some like the UK, that trust was misplaced, and compliance with isolation rules was under 50%. More like, people in the UK more correctly assessed the risk of COVID. While is a dangerous disease, it's not so dangerous that it is worth giving up all of your civil rights to avoid it. In Australia the cure seems to be worse than the disease.

Nursie 5y ago
Who's given up "all their civil rights" ? That seems like a massive hyperbole. In WA, there are no lockdowns or any real coronavirus restrictions once you're in. Looks good to me. Might want to compare those death rates too.
- jlangenauer 5y ago
  You're not allowed to leave your state or your country with the permission of some bureaucrat, and you're claiming that you haven't given up any civil rights? I guess no-one had given up their civil rights in East Germany, or the Soviet Union then either.
  - omegabravo 5y ago
    Always so hyperbolic. The state border controls are for quarantine. In states that have covid under control, that means filling out a form stating you're not sick. Rather sensible requirement during a pandemic The banning of country exit visas is far far more controversial and doesn't have wide spread support. It seems okay as a sensible precaution at the start of the pandemic in order to ensure quarantine places were available for people who want to return to Australia. The fact that it's gone on so long without any real effort to find a better solution is poor government. Border controls in Australia, are widely popular. Much like in the US. The border controls will be removed once the country reaches a steady state of vaccination levels and things are as back to normal as they will get. All other controls have been removed immediately once they were no longer required. This mass surveillance is far more concerning, and people constantly talking about temporary quarantine controls are muddying the waters of an important topic.
    - foolinaround 5y ago
      > Border controls in Australia, are widely popular. the Nazi treatment of Jews was also widely popular among the Germans at that time.
- strangeattractr 5y ago
  I live in Victoria. We have certainly given up all of our freedom. Our Premier has suspended parliament and now rules by decree. Citing fabled 'health advice', which is never made public nor provided when queried, to justify anything he does. That's why we have a 9PM curfew that has done nothing to stem the spread, punitive 'alchohol must be drunk through a mask' rules and playground closures. Those were not legitimate public health measures, but punishments for Victorians risking his re-election strategy of 'beating the virus' after spending the weekend outside in the sunshine. Police harass citizens for the crime of taking a rest on a park bench while on their 1 hour of allowed outside time per day. I have friends who have been unable to leave the country to see dying parents. I have had friends unable to travel interstate to see their dying parents. My own grandmother died in our lockdown so the last 12 months of her life were spent locked in her own home. This is not a successful strategy, and anybody reading Australia's low deaths and case numbers need to realise this. We have myopic politicians who are suffering from an obsession with a particular metric, neglecting everything else enabled by a population of unthinking zealots who genuinely believe a single death is a policy failure. Locking down this severely is neither clever nor demonstrates a particularly high level of consideration. It is the most blunt and basic response to the virus and it's only possible in a country of docile livestock who are content to cede every right if the person they're ceding it to promises it will make them safer from a virus, or in the case of these new national 'security' measures pedophiles or terrorists.
  - Nursie 5y ago
    All of your freedoms and rights? I imagine someone will be along to arrest you for sedition shortly then? That sounds horrendous but honestly little different to what we went through in the UK at various points in the last year and a half, and the death rates are very low in comparison. I’m sorry for your loss.
    - logicchains 5y ago
      Funny thing is if he'd posted this on Facebook the Victorian police could well arrest him for incitement.
  - 5y ago
gambiting 5y ago
I've had to do a 14 day quarantine in the UK at home, and frankly, it was a bit of a joke. Literally no one has ever checked we were actually at home, the amount of trust in the population is insane over here. We actually stayed at home the entire time, but I know people who didn't, they had to go to work to make a living and the fine was like a £100. In contrast, in Poland if you are told to quarantine you will get occassional and random visits from the police to see if you are actually at home, and the fine for breaking the quarantine is insane, it's like 30k PLN(about $10k USD).
- MomoXenosaga 5y ago
  Rather have the country focus on a mass vaccination drive than trying to do a full China style lockdown. In hindsight the unlimited money spent on healthcare and a collective willingness to take the corona pill works better than whatever Australia is trying to do.
  - Nursie 5y ago
    Australia is trying to reach 80% vaccination by the end of the year, then open up.
  - modo_mario 5y ago
    >Rather have the country focus on a mass vaccination drive Which is a bit difficult in a lot of places due to international demand. >than trying to do a full China style lockdown. Tbh the seemingly extreme chinese lockdown ended with them having less overall restriction in the long run from what i've seen. it's too late to try that here now but i probably would have preferred it. People are much less impacted by severe limitation on international travel than a severe limitation on social and personal life.
- virtualritz 5y ago
  I've been to Poland for a private b-day party over a long weekend in April this year (Thursday--Monday). When this country was marked red. I came by train from Berlin. The rules were to have a negative test not older than 24hs and to quarantine after arrival. No one ever checked. Go figure. This happened: Thursday evening, just after I arrived, my host said: let's go to tango (we are social tango dancers). We drove to a (previously) regular event which is in a park in Warsaw, close to the center, that weekday. It was on as if nothing had ever happened. I know the tango scene in Warsaw a bit. Everyone was there. All the familiar faces. About 80-100 people. And even some people who live like 100km away. I couldn't believe it. Dancers I talked to there told me this was going on for months. "Basically there never was a lockdown for social dancers." they said. "At the beginning you had to register for 'classes' but as soon as the doors were closed it was a normal dancing event. No masks, no distancing etc." Restaurants were not allowed to open at the time. So what happened Friday was straight out of a movie. We drove to a brand new residential building in a side street. Approaching it the door opened and woman in a black mini dress welcomed us. Immediately checking our names on a list. Once she had found us two thugs in tailored suits who would befit the extras list of any action summer blockbuster appeared behind her; out of nowhere. Inside they escorted us to an entrance next to the building's elevators that led through a narrow hallway, past a busy restaurant kitchen into a top notch Italian joint. No one wore a mask but amazingly only every 2nd table was being used. There was a DJ in the middle and my friend told me: "This turns into a private club from around 10:30pm." The front side windows had blinds that were tightly shut. From the outside the restaurant must have looked completely shut down. After dinner, at around 11pm, my friend suggested we go to a (real) club. But we had to wait for at least 30mins, he said. Because the police were blocking the back door through which we entered -- waiting for their cut. As they did every night at 11pm. I asked him how he'd know. He said: "I spoke to the owner when this happened before and we couldn't leave." The owner and the head waitress were pulling together the evening's proceedings on a tablet. Then they stuffed an envelope. My friend told me he had asked the owner and the police would expect to pocket 10% of the evening's earnings. And they they wanted to see the proceedings on the tablet. When we exited the building through the side street entrance again, at around 11:30pm, the police car just pulled out in front of us. The club we went to afterwards was also in an old residential building in the center. Through a narrow old door into a wide, low ceiling hallway leading to the yard. Stuffed with rubble and old bicycles. In the middle of the side of the hallway a narrow stairway leading down to the basement. About 300 young guests, seemingly drunk, in a space of maybe 300sqm -- minus bars & toilets. It was so crowded you couldn't drop to the floor if you lost your balance. I wasn't ok to enter there so went to my friend's house instead but I saw it for maybe 30 secs. So Poland, yeah. Maybe someone got fined 30k PLN for breaking some COVID rules. Maybe.
jezzzabell 5y ago
UK Covid deaths 133,000 vs Australia Covid deaths 1054. That's some cold-blooded calculus to say that Australia would have been better off with another 50,000 people dead rather than having some restrictions in place while they wait for vaccination targets to be reached.
- krona 5y ago
  Given the UK quarantine period was reduced by the chief medical officers "After reviewing the evidence" to 10 days from 14 by the start of 2021, it probably didn't make a difference.
- calsy 5y ago
  How many will die from the economic fallout and how who will pay for this insane government debt accumulated over the last 2 years. The kids, thats who, the kids who don't get a vaccine and get the privilege of paying the bill for us to sit at home. What happens to a country that stops people working and starts living on the government credit card? It's all great now when everything is paid in debt. What happens to health, education and infrastructure? What happens to peoples wellbeing and prosperity in the future? Australia's health care system was already at breaking point pre covid. Education was already at breaking point pre covid. They bullshit us that the numbers are fine, and being the fools we are we believe them even though it makes no logical sense. How will people work and pay tax when there are no jobs? How many will die you think? Covid is not the only thing that can kill you. Poverty has killed infinitely more.
- jjgreen 5y ago
  "Those who would give up ..." oh forget it, old-fashioned ideas
  - Nursie 5y ago
    Not sure how temporary the safety gained by those tens of thousands is, nor how essential the liberty to enter a country without two weeks of quarantine is. In fact, having just a few minutes ago come out of two weeks confined to a hotel room, into a place where there is effectively no coronavirus, I’d say not very essential at all.
LightG 5y ago
Sure we did ... so easy to forget the dead when they don't have a voice to speak. The UK Covid response was a joke. And the behaviour of the people, who completely lost trust in our leadership (understandably), acted accordingly.

Nursie 5y ago

Who's given up "all their civil rights" ? That seems like a massive hyperbole. In WA, there are no lockdowns or any real coronavirus restrictions once you're in. Looks good to me. Might want to compare those death rates too.

jlangenauer 5y ago
You're not allowed to leave your state or your country with the permission of some bureaucrat, and you're claiming that you haven't given up any civil rights? I guess no-one had given up their civil rights in East Germany, or the Soviet Union then either.
- omegabravo 5y ago
  Always so hyperbolic. The state border controls are for quarantine. In states that have covid under control, that means filling out a form stating you're not sick. Rather sensible requirement during a pandemic The banning of country exit visas is far far more controversial and doesn't have wide spread support. It seems okay as a sensible precaution at the start of the pandemic in order to ensure quarantine places were available for people who want to return to Australia. The fact that it's gone on so long without any real effort to find a better solution is poor government. Border controls in Australia, are widely popular. Much like in the US. The border controls will be removed once the country reaches a steady state of vaccination levels and things are as back to normal as they will get. All other controls have been removed immediately once they were no longer required. This mass surveillance is far more concerning, and people constantly talking about temporary quarantine controls are muddying the waters of an important topic.
  - foolinaround 5y ago
    > Border controls in Australia, are widely popular. the Nazi treatment of Jews was also widely popular among the Germans at that time.
strangeattractr 5y ago
I live in Victoria. We have certainly given up all of our freedom. Our Premier has suspended parliament and now rules by decree. Citing fabled 'health advice', which is never made public nor provided when queried, to justify anything he does. That's why we have a 9PM curfew that has done nothing to stem the spread, punitive 'alchohol must be drunk through a mask' rules and playground closures. Those were not legitimate public health measures, but punishments for Victorians risking his re-election strategy of 'beating the virus' after spending the weekend outside in the sunshine. Police harass citizens for the crime of taking a rest on a park bench while on their 1 hour of allowed outside time per day. I have friends who have been unable to leave the country to see dying parents. I have had friends unable to travel interstate to see their dying parents. My own grandmother died in our lockdown so the last 12 months of her life were spent locked in her own home. This is not a successful strategy, and anybody reading Australia's low deaths and case numbers need to realise this. We have myopic politicians who are suffering from an obsession with a particular metric, neglecting everything else enabled by a population of unthinking zealots who genuinely believe a single death is a policy failure. Locking down this severely is neither clever nor demonstrates a particularly high level of consideration. It is the most blunt and basic response to the virus and it's only possible in a country of docile livestock who are content to cede every right if the person they're ceding it to promises it will make them safer from a virus, or in the case of these new national 'security' measures pedophiles or terrorists.
- Nursie 5y ago
  All of your freedoms and rights? I imagine someone will be along to arrest you for sedition shortly then? That sounds horrendous but honestly little different to what we went through in the UK at various points in the last year and a half, and the death rates are very low in comparison. I’m sorry for your loss.
  - logicchains 5y ago
    Funny thing is if he'd posted this on Facebook the Victorian police could well arrest him for incitement.
- 5y ago

gambiting 5y ago

I've had to do a 14 day quarantine in the UK at home, and frankly, it was a bit of a joke. Literally no one has ever checked we were actually at home, the amount of trust in the population is insane over here. We actually stayed at home the entire time, but I know people who didn't, they had to go to work to make a living and the fine was like a £100. In contrast, in Poland if you are told to quarantine you will get occassional and random visits from the police to see if you are actually at home, and the fine for breaking the quarantine is insane, it's like 30k PLN(about $10k USD).

MomoXenosaga 5y ago
Rather have the country focus on a mass vaccination drive than trying to do a full China style lockdown. In hindsight the unlimited money spent on healthcare and a collective willingness to take the corona pill works better than whatever Australia is trying to do.
- Nursie 5y ago
  Australia is trying to reach 80% vaccination by the end of the year, then open up.
- modo_mario 5y ago
  >Rather have the country focus on a mass vaccination drive Which is a bit difficult in a lot of places due to international demand. >than trying to do a full China style lockdown. Tbh the seemingly extreme chinese lockdown ended with them having less overall restriction in the long run from what i've seen. it's too late to try that here now but i probably would have preferred it. People are much less impacted by severe limitation on international travel than a severe limitation on social and personal life.
virtualritz 5y ago
I've been to Poland for a private b-day party over a long weekend in April this year (Thursday--Monday). When this country was marked red. I came by train from Berlin. The rules were to have a negative test not older than 24hs and to quarantine after arrival. No one ever checked. Go figure. This happened: Thursday evening, just after I arrived, my host said: let's go to tango (we are social tango dancers). We drove to a (previously) regular event which is in a park in Warsaw, close to the center, that weekday. It was on as if nothing had ever happened. I know the tango scene in Warsaw a bit. Everyone was there. All the familiar faces. About 80-100 people. And even some people who live like 100km away. I couldn't believe it. Dancers I talked to there told me this was going on for months. "Basically there never was a lockdown for social dancers." they said. "At the beginning you had to register for 'classes' but as soon as the doors were closed it was a normal dancing event. No masks, no distancing etc." Restaurants were not allowed to open at the time. So what happened Friday was straight out of a movie. We drove to a brand new residential building in a side street. Approaching it the door opened and woman in a black mini dress welcomed us. Immediately checking our names on a list. Once she had found us two thugs in tailored suits who would befit the extras list of any action summer blockbuster appeared behind her; out of nowhere. Inside they escorted us to an entrance next to the building's elevators that led through a narrow hallway, past a busy restaurant kitchen into a top notch Italian joint. No one wore a mask but amazingly only every 2nd table was being used. There was a DJ in the middle and my friend told me: "This turns into a private club from around 10:30pm." The front side windows had blinds that were tightly shut. From the outside the restaurant must have looked completely shut down. After dinner, at around 11pm, my friend suggested we go to a (real) club. But we had to wait for at least 30mins, he said. Because the police were blocking the back door through which we entered -- waiting for their cut. As they did every night at 11pm. I asked him how he'd know. He said: "I spoke to the owner when this happened before and we couldn't leave." The owner and the head waitress were pulling together the evening's proceedings on a tablet. Then they stuffed an envelope. My friend told me he had asked the owner and the police would expect to pocket 10% of the evening's earnings. And they they wanted to see the proceedings on the tablet. When we exited the building through the side street entrance again, at around 11:30pm, the police car just pulled out in front of us. The club we went to afterwards was also in an old residential building in the center. Through a narrow old door into a wide, low ceiling hallway leading to the yard. Stuffed with rubble and old bicycles. In the middle of the side of the hallway a narrow stairway leading down to the basement. About 300 young guests, seemingly drunk, in a space of maybe 300sqm -- minus bars & toilets. It was so crowded you couldn't drop to the floor if you lost your balance. I wasn't ok to enter there so went to my friend's house instead but I saw it for maybe 30 secs. So Poland, yeah. Maybe someone got fined 30k PLN for breaking some COVID rules. Maybe.

jezzzabell 5y ago

UK Covid deaths 133,000 vs Australia Covid deaths 1054. That's some cold-blooded calculus to say that Australia would have been better off with another 50,000 people dead rather than having some restrictions in place while they wait for vaccination targets to be reached.

krona 5y ago
Given the UK quarantine period was reduced by the chief medical officers "After reviewing the evidence" to 10 days from 14 by the start of 2021, it probably didn't make a difference.
calsy 5y ago
How many will die from the economic fallout and how who will pay for this insane government debt accumulated over the last 2 years. The kids, thats who, the kids who don't get a vaccine and get the privilege of paying the bill for us to sit at home. What happens to a country that stops people working and starts living on the government credit card? It's all great now when everything is paid in debt. What happens to health, education and infrastructure? What happens to peoples wellbeing and prosperity in the future? Australia's health care system was already at breaking point pre covid. Education was already at breaking point pre covid. They bullshit us that the numbers are fine, and being the fools we are we believe them even though it makes no logical sense. How will people work and pay tax when there are no jobs? How many will die you think? Covid is not the only thing that can kill you. Poverty has killed infinitely more.
jjgreen 5y ago
"Those who would give up ..." oh forget it, old-fashioned ideas
- Nursie 5y ago
  Not sure how temporary the safety gained by those tens of thousands is, nor how essential the liberty to enter a country without two weeks of quarantine is. In fact, having just a few minutes ago come out of two weeks confined to a hotel room, into a place where there is effectively no coronavirus, I’d say not very essential at all.

LightG 5y ago

Sure we did ... so easy to forget the dead when they don't have a voice to speak. The UK Covid response was a joke. And the behaviour of the people, who completely lost trust in our leadership (understandably), acted accordingly.