7 ms·

Even if it's "just" for 2 weeks of quarantine, being able to check-in within 15 minutes seems unreasonable. What about taking a nap, taking a bath, cooking, etc

by Palmik 5y ago

Even if it's "just" for 2 weeks of quarantine, being able to check-in within 15 minutes seems unreasonable. What about taking a nap, taking a bath, cooking, etc.? Many other countries trust their citizens enough that such draconian measures weren't required even at the height of the pandemic. Not to mention now. I'd be curious how violations to check-in are handled in practice.

Nursie 5y ago
> What about taking a nap, taking a bath, cooking, etc.? If you fail to check in, they try again a bit later on, if you fail again it falls back to the non app-enabled method of a police check at your home. The app is voluntary and allows you to be at home rather than in a facility, and to not have random police checks. It's a convenience, not an imposition. > Many other countries trust their citizens enough that such draconian measures weren't required even at the height of the pandemic. In some like the UK, that trust was misplaced, and compliance with isolation rules was under 50%. > I'd be curious how violations to check-in are handled in practice. By a second request and then a police visit, the same police visit you'd get if you opted not to use the app at all.
- iotku 5y ago
  >The app is voluntary and allows you to be at home rather than in a facility, and to not have random police checks If the alternative is being harassed by the police it's not voluntary.
  - Nursie 5y ago
    The app is entirely voluntary. Quarantine is not. Effectively you get to choose - 1. Stay in a quarantine centre for two weeks under guard (which you pay for) 2. Quarantine at home with police visits 3. As above but check in with the app In that context, getting pissed off about the app is ridiculous. You want to argue quarantine is unnecessary or wrong? Go for it, make those arguments. But what you’re doing is pissing and moaning about the easiest and least intrusive option. It’s not a good look. As someone who is coming to the end of two weeks in a quarantine centre (actually a Novotel, and there’s no app or home quarantine for international arrivals), that app option looks mighty good. And as I am about to enter a state with no coronavirus, quarantine is looking like it’s been a great plan.
    - tgsovlerkhgsel 5y ago
      > 2. Quarantine at home with police visits Is this an official option, or do you have to install the app then turn your phone off, with the potential of this turning to 1 if they don't like you doing that too often?
      - Nursie 5y ago
        I believe this is an official option, at least in WA where there is already an app, it's up to you which option to take. AFAICT there is no "we're sick of visiting you, off to a quarantine centre" potential at all, effectively you're doing them a favour by using the app, the default would be police visits. Unless you're found to have breached quarantine the conditions I guess. Not sure what happens then.
  - ikr678 5y ago
    This is in one of the few jurisdictions worldwide with zero covid trasmission, and the government wishes to keep it that way.
    - Clubber 5y ago
      See the argument for having a high transmission also justifies this. It's win-win. If you have low transmission, we need to enact these laws to keep it that way. If it's a high transmission, we need to enact these laws to lower the transmission. I'm amazed people have this much trust in their government officials. I mean they're just people with the same ethical flaws as everyone else, they just have a lot more power.
- zarzavat 5y ago
  > In some like the UK, that trust was misplaced, and compliance with isolation rules was under 50%. More like, people in the UK more correctly assessed the risk of COVID. While is a dangerous disease, it's not so dangerous that it is worth giving up all of your civil rights to avoid it. In Australia the cure seems to be worse than the disease.
  - Nursie 5y ago
    Who's given up "all their civil rights" ? That seems like a massive hyperbole. In WA, there are no lockdowns or any real coronavirus restrictions once you're in. Looks good to me. Might want to compare those death rates too.
    - jlangenauer 5y ago
      You're not allowed to leave your state or your country with the permission of some bureaucrat, and you're claiming that you haven't given up any civil rights? I guess no-one had given up their civil rights in East Germany, or the Soviet Union then either.
      - omegabravo 5y ago
        Always so hyperbolic. The state border controls are for quarantine. In states that have covid under control, that means filling out a form stating you're not sick. Rather sensible requirement during a pandemic The banning of country exit visas is far far more controversial and doesn't have wide spread support. It seems okay as a sensible precaution at the start of the pandemic in order to ensure quarantine places were available for people who want to return to Australia. The fact that it's gone on so long without any real effort to find a better solution is poor government. Border controls in Australia, are widely popular. Much like in the US. The border controls will be removed once the country reaches a steady state of vaccination levels and things are as back to normal as they will get. All other controls have been removed immediately once they were no longer required. This mass surveillance is far more concerning, and people constantly talking about temporary quarantine controls are muddying the waters of an important topic.
- ud_0 5y ago
  Hang on, the 15 minute interval requires constant human action, it's not enough that the phone itself is reachable? How does that even work? If that's true (which is sincerely hope it's not) being woken up every 15 minutes during the night for two weeks constitutes torture under most definitions.
  - Nursie 5y ago
    It goes off once or twice a day, and you have 15 minutes to check in once it does. If you miss one, it'll try again a bit later. If you miss the retry, the police visit to check you're home. It's not checking every 15 minutes!
  - nanis 5y ago
    You have to respond within 15 minutes with a geotagged selfie as I understand it. Given that one cannot know when one's chain is going to be yanked, it still sounds like torture.

by Palmik 5y ago

Nursie 5y ago

> What about taking a nap, taking a bath, cooking, etc.? If you fail to check in, they try again a bit later on, if you fail again it falls back to the non app-enabled method of a police check at your home. The app is voluntary and allows you to be at home rather than in a facility, and to not have random police checks. It's a convenience, not an imposition. > Many other countries trust their citizens enough that such draconian measures weren't required even at the height of the pandemic. In some like the UK, that trust was misplaced, and compliance with isolation rules was under 50%. > I'd be curious how violations to check-in are handled in practice. By a second request and then a police visit, the same police visit you'd get if you opted not to use the app at all.

iotku 5y ago
>The app is voluntary and allows you to be at home rather than in a facility, and to not have random police checks If the alternative is being harassed by the police it's not voluntary.
- Nursie 5y ago
  The app is entirely voluntary. Quarantine is not. Effectively you get to choose - 1. Stay in a quarantine centre for two weeks under guard (which you pay for) 2. Quarantine at home with police visits 3. As above but check in with the app In that context, getting pissed off about the app is ridiculous. You want to argue quarantine is unnecessary or wrong? Go for it, make those arguments. But what you’re doing is pissing and moaning about the easiest and least intrusive option. It’s not a good look. As someone who is coming to the end of two weeks in a quarantine centre (actually a Novotel, and there’s no app or home quarantine for international arrivals), that app option looks mighty good. And as I am about to enter a state with no coronavirus, quarantine is looking like it’s been a great plan.
  - tgsovlerkhgsel 5y ago
    > 2. Quarantine at home with police visits Is this an official option, or do you have to install the app then turn your phone off, with the potential of this turning to 1 if they don't like you doing that too often?
    - Nursie 5y ago
      I believe this is an official option, at least in WA where there is already an app, it's up to you which option to take. AFAICT there is no "we're sick of visiting you, off to a quarantine centre" potential at all, effectively you're doing them a favour by using the app, the default would be police visits. Unless you're found to have breached quarantine the conditions I guess. Not sure what happens then.
- ikr678 5y ago
  This is in one of the few jurisdictions worldwide with zero covid trasmission, and the government wishes to keep it that way.
  - Clubber 5y ago
    See the argument for having a high transmission also justifies this. It's win-win. If you have low transmission, we need to enact these laws to keep it that way. If it's a high transmission, we need to enact these laws to lower the transmission. I'm amazed people have this much trust in their government officials. I mean they're just people with the same ethical flaws as everyone else, they just have a lot more power.
zarzavat 5y ago
> In some like the UK, that trust was misplaced, and compliance with isolation rules was under 50%. More like, people in the UK more correctly assessed the risk of COVID. While is a dangerous disease, it's not so dangerous that it is worth giving up all of your civil rights to avoid it. In Australia the cure seems to be worse than the disease.
- Nursie 5y ago
  Who's given up "all their civil rights" ? That seems like a massive hyperbole. In WA, there are no lockdowns or any real coronavirus restrictions once you're in. Looks good to me. Might want to compare those death rates too.
  - jlangenauer 5y ago
    You're not allowed to leave your state or your country with the permission of some bureaucrat, and you're claiming that you haven't given up any civil rights? I guess no-one had given up their civil rights in East Germany, or the Soviet Union then either.
    - omegabravo 5y ago
      Always so hyperbolic. The state border controls are for quarantine. In states that have covid under control, that means filling out a form stating you're not sick. Rather sensible requirement during a pandemic The banning of country exit visas is far far more controversial and doesn't have wide spread support. It seems okay as a sensible precaution at the start of the pandemic in order to ensure quarantine places were available for people who want to return to Australia. The fact that it's gone on so long without any real effort to find a better solution is poor government. Border controls in Australia, are widely popular. Much like in the US. The border controls will be removed once the country reaches a steady state of vaccination levels and things are as back to normal as they will get. All other controls have been removed immediately once they were no longer required. This mass surveillance is far more concerning, and people constantly talking about temporary quarantine controls are muddying the waters of an important topic.
ud_0 5y ago
Hang on, the 15 minute interval requires constant human action, it's not enough that the phone itself is reachable? How does that even work? If that's true (which is sincerely hope it's not) being woken up every 15 minutes during the night for two weeks constitutes torture under most definitions.
- Nursie 5y ago
  It goes off once or twice a day, and you have 15 minutes to check in once it does. If you miss one, it'll try again a bit later. If you miss the retry, the police visit to check you're home. It's not checking every 15 minutes!
- nanis 5y ago
  You have to respond within 15 minutes with a geotagged selfie as I understand it. Given that one cannot know when one's chain is going to be yanked, it still sounds like torture.