5 ms·

I feel you mate. Sad part is Australia has all the potential to have a really good future but the only thing missing is competent leadership. The liberal govern

by tac0_ 5y ago

I feel you mate. Sad part is Australia has all the potential to have a really good future but the only thing missing is competent leadership. The liberal government continues to fuck up time and time again and the Murdoch press just turns a blind eye. Fucked up quarantine, fucked up vaccine rollout, fucked up climate policies, fucked up the news media bargaining code, and fucked up numerous policies just to prop up the housing market. And it'll be the younger generations that will certainly pay for these fuck ups. I really hope we have an early election and Australians choose Labor over Liberal this time.

lsiebert 5y ago
For US folks, The Liberal Party is Center Right and further to the left than the Republicans, Labor is Center Left and further to the left of the Democrats.
- jclulow 5y ago
  Under the current leadership the LNP inches closer to the GOP with each passing day, so, I don't expect they'll be perpetually to the left of the Republicans.
  - bogomipz 5y ago
    Sorry if this is a silly question but are the LP and the LNP the same party? When I try to look up LNP I see references to Queensland which confuses me if it's a national party. If not are they related?
    - stephen_g 5y ago
      Yeah, it's confusing. The federal parties are made up of state branches, and the state branches of the Nationals and Liberals merged in Queensland. Federally the two parties are in coalition, so it's basically the same anyway, even though they are technically different parties in the other states.
- Jedd 5y ago
  > .. Labor is Center Left and further to the left of the Democrats. Do you think? I'd have pegged things like Green New Deal, fairly strong consensus around fossil fuels and renewables, as strong US Democrat party line -- compared to AU's Labor being still wedded to a fossil fuel future, still keen to satiate Murdoch and co. What broad policies / positions are you suggesting indicate AU Labor is more left than US Democrat?
  - astrange 5y ago
    People don't appreciate how left the Democrats are because almost everyone's political opinions are 5-10 years behind reality. The Democrats are one of the most successful left parties in the world currently; as soon as you count "respecting immigrants" then e.g. Europe loses cred no matter how good the healthcare systems are. And those systems weren't designed by the current generation.
  - lsiebert 5y ago
    On a lot of things, universal health care, how strongly they are in favor of nuclear disarmament, gun control, etc. Remember President Biden is the head of the Democratic Party, And the US itself has been pushed further to the right by a conservative dominated supreme court. Here's the 2021 Labor party platform https://alp.org.au/media/2594/2021-alp-national-platform-final-endorsed-platform.pdf https://alp.org.au/media/2594/2021-alp-national-platform-fin... Here's the 2020 Democratic Party platform https://democrats.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/08/2020-Democratic-Party-Platform.pdf https://democrats.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/08/202...
    - Jedd 5y ago
      Okay, so there's 249 pages of policy to read and then correlate, which is a bit beyond me. > ... universal health care, how strongly they are in favor of nuclear disarmament, gun control, etc As I understand it, US Democrats are keen on those three, and in Australia, we've already embraced all of those. Are you suggesting there's a policy mis-match, or that one of the two groups leans even more strongly towards these principles than the other group? Either way, I'm not sure how this strongly differentiates them. > ... the US itself has been pushed further to the right by a conservative dominated supreme court. The USA's supreme court arrangement is indeed a curious artefact, for those of us outside its domain. AFAICT it's been 'pushed' in one direction by political appointees in the previous presidents' term.
- stephen_g 5y ago
  This isn't quite accurate. Really, Labor over the last five or six years (but mostly in just the last two) has actually moved basically centre-right as well, but still to the left of the Liberal/National coalition. In terms of the Liberal and National parties (who are in coalition Federally, and the two state branches merged in Queensland), while they are slightly left of the GOP overall, there are definitely a fair few MPs and senators in the party that are just as far right-wing. For the 'moderates', they're mostly captured by business interests (especially the resources (coal, oil and gas) and property lobbies). For Labor, the shift right is because a massive media campaign spread lies about some of their slightly more progressive policies last election, so instead of trying to correct it, the leader of the opposition who replaced the one who ran at the last election just decided to drop the policies. Also, Labor have voted in lock-step on all the mass-surveillance laws, censorship laws. Finally, despite being on about climate, they have voted for increasing grants and subsidies to new coal and gas exploration, such as in the Narrabi and Beetaloo basins, against the wishes of much of the population, farmers in the area, and the First Nations traditional owners of the land. They are definitely the "lesser of two evils", but where I would have laughed at the thought of not voting 1st for them ten years ago, now I give my first preference to a minor party or independent (preferential voting is seriously a good idea, by the way).
  - lsiebert 5y ago
    This is all accurate and detailed and I appreciate it, but I'm comparing them directly to US parties, hence center left, not centre-left. It's possible I'm just splitting hairs though.
inkyoto 5y ago
the only thing missing is competent leadership I keep hearing this every now and then, but the incompetent leadership does not come from nowhere nor has conceived itself. The country leaders have been legitimately elected, which means the leadership is the direct reflection of the country people's will. People consciously elect incompetence that bears the incompetent leadership, for that is what they desire for one reason or another. There are a few progressive, young parties that could steer the future of Australia in the right direction with progressive policies that make sense in the 21st century. Guess what? An average Australian does not care about the progress, they care about their real estate portfolio in maintaining the status quo for a change is scary and frightens people. Politics have become a career ladder excercise with public servants serving their own self-interest rather than working out differences between differing views and opinions and working towards a modern future of the country. Australia has been become mired in complacency, pipe dreaming and discussing how Labour is better over Liberals (or the other way around) whereas both parties are more or less the same in the grand scheme of things.
- tac0_ 5y ago
  > The country leaders have been legitimately elected, which means the leadership is the direct reflection of the country people's will. I don't disagree. Although influencing the people's will is a lot easier when the main stream media is monopolised and heavily biased towards one political party. If we want a government that truly reflects the people's will we need a diverse media landscape. Also a reason why I support Kevin Rudd's push for the Murdoch royal commission.
  - rosege 5y ago
    We also need a population that takes an interest in what's going on an will vote out a corrupt politician regardless of their party. Most will excuse anything if it comes from their side. I'm in SA and I do what I can to support Rex Patrick as I see strong independents like him being the only hope in the immediate future.
  - jim-jim-jim 5y ago
    I don't want to single you out, but the monomaniacal hardon that middle aged Redditors and Kevin Rudd (same thing) have for Rupert Murdoch is fascinating from my outsider perspective. It seems like a relic of a bygone generation—think 2003 and "Faux News." Like, it's not the wrong news that's turning Australia shit. Mean old Newscorp didn't force Labor to vote for increased surveillance, to leave negative gearing alone, or to go soft on coal lol.
sigotirandolas 5y ago
Various sources are reporting that Labor supported the bill as well. https://www.zdnet.com/article/australias-hacking-bill-passes-the-senate-after-house-made-60-amendments/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/australias-hacking-bill-passes... > The House of Representatives on Tuesday passed the Bill, with a total of 60 amendments, and while Labor has thrown its support behind the Bill as a result of the amended document being a "better Bill", the Australian Greens have not.

by tac0_ 5y ago

lsiebert 5y ago

For US folks, The Liberal Party is Center Right and further to the left than the Republicans, Labor is Center Left and further to the left of the Democrats.

jclulow 5y ago
Under the current leadership the LNP inches closer to the GOP with each passing day, so, I don't expect they'll be perpetually to the left of the Republicans.
- bogomipz 5y ago
  Sorry if this is a silly question but are the LP and the LNP the same party? When I try to look up LNP I see references to Queensland which confuses me if it's a national party. If not are they related?
  - stephen_g 5y ago
    Yeah, it's confusing. The federal parties are made up of state branches, and the state branches of the Nationals and Liberals merged in Queensland. Federally the two parties are in coalition, so it's basically the same anyway, even though they are technically different parties in the other states.
Jedd 5y ago
> .. Labor is Center Left and further to the left of the Democrats. Do you think? I'd have pegged things like Green New Deal, fairly strong consensus around fossil fuels and renewables, as strong US Democrat party line -- compared to AU's Labor being still wedded to a fossil fuel future, still keen to satiate Murdoch and co. What broad policies / positions are you suggesting indicate AU Labor is more left than US Democrat?
- astrange 5y ago
  People don't appreciate how left the Democrats are because almost everyone's political opinions are 5-10 years behind reality. The Democrats are one of the most successful left parties in the world currently; as soon as you count "respecting immigrants" then e.g. Europe loses cred no matter how good the healthcare systems are. And those systems weren't designed by the current generation.
- lsiebert 5y ago
  On a lot of things, universal health care, how strongly they are in favor of nuclear disarmament, gun control, etc. Remember President Biden is the head of the Democratic Party, And the US itself has been pushed further to the right by a conservative dominated supreme court. Here's the 2021 Labor party platform https://alp.org.au/media/2594/2021-alp-national-platform-final-endorsed-platform.pdf https://alp.org.au/media/2594/2021-alp-national-platform-fin... Here's the 2020 Democratic Party platform https://democrats.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/08/2020-Democratic-Party-Platform.pdf https://democrats.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/08/202...
  - Jedd 5y ago
    Okay, so there's 249 pages of policy to read and then correlate, which is a bit beyond me. > ... universal health care, how strongly they are in favor of nuclear disarmament, gun control, etc As I understand it, US Democrats are keen on those three, and in Australia, we've already embraced all of those. Are you suggesting there's a policy mis-match, or that one of the two groups leans even more strongly towards these principles than the other group? Either way, I'm not sure how this strongly differentiates them. > ... the US itself has been pushed further to the right by a conservative dominated supreme court. The USA's supreme court arrangement is indeed a curious artefact, for those of us outside its domain. AFAICT it's been 'pushed' in one direction by political appointees in the previous presidents' term.
stephen_g 5y ago
This isn't quite accurate. Really, Labor over the last five or six years (but mostly in just the last two) has actually moved basically centre-right as well, but still to the left of the Liberal/National coalition. In terms of the Liberal and National parties (who are in coalition Federally, and the two state branches merged in Queensland), while they are slightly left of the GOP overall, there are definitely a fair few MPs and senators in the party that are just as far right-wing. For the 'moderates', they're mostly captured by business interests (especially the resources (coal, oil and gas) and property lobbies). For Labor, the shift right is because a massive media campaign spread lies about some of their slightly more progressive policies last election, so instead of trying to correct it, the leader of the opposition who replaced the one who ran at the last election just decided to drop the policies. Also, Labor have voted in lock-step on all the mass-surveillance laws, censorship laws. Finally, despite being on about climate, they have voted for increasing grants and subsidies to new coal and gas exploration, such as in the Narrabi and Beetaloo basins, against the wishes of much of the population, farmers in the area, and the First Nations traditional owners of the land. They are definitely the "lesser of two evils", but where I would have laughed at the thought of not voting 1st for them ten years ago, now I give my first preference to a minor party or independent (preferential voting is seriously a good idea, by the way).
- lsiebert 5y ago
  This is all accurate and detailed and I appreciate it, but I'm comparing them directly to US parties, hence center left, not centre-left. It's possible I'm just splitting hairs though.

inkyoto 5y ago

the only thing missing is competent leadership I keep hearing this every now and then, but the incompetent leadership does not come from nowhere nor has conceived itself. The country leaders have been legitimately elected, which means the leadership is the direct reflection of the country people's will. People consciously elect incompetence that bears the incompetent leadership, for that is what they desire for one reason or another. There are a few progressive, young parties that could steer the future of Australia in the right direction with progressive policies that make sense in the 21st century. Guess what? An average Australian does not care about the progress, they care about their real estate portfolio in maintaining the status quo for a change is scary and frightens people. Politics have become a career ladder excercise with public servants serving their own self-interest rather than working out differences between differing views and opinions and working towards a modern future of the country. Australia has been become mired in complacency, pipe dreaming and discussing how Labour is better over Liberals (or the other way around) whereas both parties are more or less the same in the grand scheme of things.

tac0_ 5y ago
> The country leaders have been legitimately elected, which means the leadership is the direct reflection of the country people's will. I don't disagree. Although influencing the people's will is a lot easier when the main stream media is monopolised and heavily biased towards one political party. If we want a government that truly reflects the people's will we need a diverse media landscape. Also a reason why I support Kevin Rudd's push for the Murdoch royal commission.
- rosege 5y ago
  We also need a population that takes an interest in what's going on an will vote out a corrupt politician regardless of their party. Most will excuse anything if it comes from their side. I'm in SA and I do what I can to support Rex Patrick as I see strong independents like him being the only hope in the immediate future.
- jim-jim-jim 5y ago
  I don't want to single you out, but the monomaniacal hardon that middle aged Redditors and Kevin Rudd (same thing) have for Rupert Murdoch is fascinating from my outsider perspective. It seems like a relic of a bygone generation—think 2003 and "Faux News." Like, it's not the wrong news that's turning Australia shit. Mean old Newscorp didn't force Labor to vote for increased surveillance, to leave negative gearing alone, or to go soft on coal lol.

sigotirandolas 5y ago

Various sources are reporting that Labor supported the bill as well. https://www.zdnet.com/article/australias-hacking-bill-passes-the-senate-after-house-made-60-amendments/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/australias-hacking-bill-passes... > The House of Representatives on Tuesday passed the Bill, with a total of 60 amendments, and while Labor has thrown its support behind the Bill as a result of the amended document being a "better Bill", the Australian Greens have not.