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There's no KYC for holding fiat, and transactions above 10k are on the honor system for cash purchases. Cash "welcomes them with open arms." There's also mini

There's no KYC for holding fiat, and transactions above 10k are on the honor system for cash purchases. Cash "welcomes them with open arms." There's also minimal checking of those that leave our borders; someone could easily cross into Mexico with 100k in a breifcase of Swiss Francs and no one would be the wiser. Virtually anyone that lives near the border understands this. > Whatever is built upon it is fruit of the poison tree To you; to me it's built on the tree of liberty. >building a darknet marketplace - which solves zero existing problems The existing problem was that people would show up in cash in person, and often without either parties being vetted. The darkmarket did not totally solve this problem but it did help it, by creating a rating system and allowing people to buy items without needing to put themselves in the vicinity of a potentially dangerous drug den. Sometimes direct action is more empowering to the common man than legislation. As Cody Wilson said when he made the 3d gun popular, it was a political act that the world just has to deal with. Bringing crypto into this world "legislated" into reality a way to move funds in a way the legislature failed to by blocking the path of those who are conventionally blocked by KYC and AML. I don't know that every El Salvadoran can just wait indefinitely for legislation to pass for their money to come in from their family members working in the US. Every dollar taken away from them from the likes of Western Union et al is money straight out of the mouth of possibly impoverished family members, and we shouldn't begrudge these people the tools to fund their unbanked families at a fair rate.

arcticbull 5y ago
> There's no KYC for holding fiat... Woah. Hold up. There's no KYC for holding anything. There's always been KYC for obtaining fiat. For withdrawing fiat. For depositing fiat. For getting paid in fiat. For paying other people in fiat. It's not the holding at issue, it's the transacting. > ...and transactions above 10k are on the honor system for cash purchases. No, they certainly are not. Any withdrawals or deposits of over 10K USD at a bank will require an ID and get you a CTR or SAR filed. If you tried to get 100K in fiat you will almost certainly get a CTR or SAR filed on you. You'll probably get a call from a bank manager, a compliance officer and/or someone from FinCEN. Ditto on the deposit. In fact, transactions under 10K also often get CTRs filed. [1] If you aren't withdrawing it the person who did will get the filings. > There's also minimal checking of those that leave our borders; someone could easily cross into Mexico with 100k in a breifcase of Swiss Francs and no one would be the wiser. Potentially, but unlikely. You cannot get 100K of cash lawfully without presenting ID. If you did, you committed a crime to get it, it was probably laundered, and you probably paid 2-10X that amount to launder it. You're probably a criminal. To wind up with an undocumented, untraceable 100K in a briefcase, either you or someone else committed a crime. This is part of the reason people do not cross borders with 100K in cash. It's a crime to do so without reporting it, so if found it'll be seized. It's trivial to find $100K in cash strapped to someone or on an Xray. They tend to instead obtain gift cards and move portfolios of that. > To you; to me it's built on the tree of liberty. No, crime is not liberty. It's crime. Crime is the violation of my liberties and the code of civil society because you think rights you don't have are more important than rights I do have. Again you completely ignore Wise as a much better, less volatile solution to the problem. The problem you're describing, and the world you're describing, feels a bit like finance fanfic. > The existing problem was that people would show up in cash in person, and often without either parties being vetted. The darkmarket did not totally solve this problem but it did help it, by creating a rating system and allowing people to buy items without needing to put themselves in the vicinity of a potentially dangerous drug den. No the issue with drug legislation is it impinges on the freedoms of average citizens and directly harms them via prison. A darknet market does nothing to alleviate the issue at hand. [1] https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/ctr.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/ctr.asp
- quantumBerry 5y ago
  >Woah. Hold up. There's no KYC for holding anything. There's always been KYC for obtaining fiat. For withdrawing fiat. For depositing fiat. For getting paid in fiat. For paying other people in fiat. It's not the holding at issue, it's the transacting. From a bank, or a money transmitter, or a traditional employer -- sure. But I could spange on the side of the road or get picked up at a home depot and do some work and get cash without KYC no problem, same for selling some personal goods or goods I buy and then sell at a markup or any number of common cash transactions. >No, they certainly are not. Any withdrawals or deposits of over 10K USD at a bank will require an ID and get you a CTR or SAR filed. If you tried to get 100K in fiat you will almost certainly get a CTR or SAR filed on you. You'll probably get a call from a bank manager, a compliance officer and/or someone from FinCEN. Ditto on the deposit. At a bank sure. If you sell a car for $15k you're supposed to report the transaction on the honor system but in reality people could take that cash, buy $15k worth of gold from a variety of sources and there would be no reporting anywhere despite the fact you sold $15k of assets and then bought $15k more of assets. >Potentially, but unlikely. You cannot get 100K of cash lawfully without presenting ID. If you did, you committed a crime to get it, it was probably laundered, and you probably paid 2-10X that amount to launder it. You're probably a criminal. Sure you can. I could pressure wash houses for $200 a house and do one everyday for 500 days. Or I could ask for spare change by the side of the road; doing that daily for a few years could probably get you 100k in a rich area and you wouldn't even need to speak English or have an ID or any relationship with a bank whatsoever, just the ability to bury your earnings in a hole somewhere. >This is part of the reason people do not cross borders with 100K in cash. It's a crime to do so without reporting it, so if found it'll be seized. It's trivial to find $100K in cash strapped to someone or on an Xray. Yes it is a crime, yet it happens all the time. The US/Mexico border is one of the most porous in the world, and I can tell you as someone has has crossed it multiple times that I have never been X-rayed entering mexico (they do have an X-ray but the guy manning it is asleep/gone/not interested much of the time). And this lack of X-ray is despite the fact the US border patrol has a SERIOUS SERIOUS hair up their ass for me that results in my long detainment everytime I enter the US (I've never broken a law but there's some weird file in my record that I'm a nefarious agent due to some actions in some 3rd world nations.) >No, crime is not liberty. It's crime Transferring and owning crypto is not always a crime. And crime is not necessarily bad. For instance, it is a crime to carry a hand gun in public for defense in Hawaii without a virtually unobtainable license, yet the constitution pretty clearly says the right to bear arms shall not be infringed. The government says servers have to pay taxes on all their tips, yet sometimes ones struggling to get by opt to not pay to fund imprisoning drug users or blowing up brown people abroad. Sometimes "crime" is liberty. In the US crime does not have to have a victim (like moving 100k in cash across the border) so it is not synonymous with a "violation of your liberties" or rights. >Again you completely ignore Wise as a much better, less volatile solution to the problem. No I specifically mentioned that to use Wise without fees it's an issue for the unbanked, which is a major problem in El Salvador. I'm glad the plight of the unbanked is "fanfic" to you. We all know the rich legal citizens who are banked have the financial upper hand including in international transactions. >No the issue with drug legislation is it impinges on the freedoms of average citizens and directly harms them via prison. We're in agreement here on the root cause, but unfortunately even marijuana is illegal federally despite many surveys showing the majority of the US does not want it criminalized. Even if drugs were legal, I'm not sure a casual crack user would benefit from going to a crack dealer full of broke people that feel they need it to survive ( I don't even feel all that safe going to some gas stations that people constantly ask for gas money at). But yeah I think crack and heroin should be sold off amazon and drug laws do impinge on the freedoms of average citizens, and I don't mean that in a sarcastic way. I don't know why you would rather people buy crack from some street dealer than buy it off an at least superficially vetted dealer on the darknet for whom there are at least reviews stating it's not laced with fentanyl.

arcticbull 5y ago

> There's no KYC for holding fiat... Woah. Hold up. There's no KYC for holding anything. There's always been KYC for obtaining fiat. For withdrawing fiat. For depositing fiat. For getting paid in fiat. For paying other people in fiat. It's not the holding at issue, it's the transacting. > ...and transactions above 10k are on the honor system for cash purchases. No, they certainly are not. Any withdrawals or deposits of over 10K USD at a bank will require an ID and get you a CTR or SAR filed. If you tried to get 100K in fiat you will almost certainly get a CTR or SAR filed on you. You'll probably get a call from a bank manager, a compliance officer and/or someone from FinCEN. Ditto on the deposit. In fact, transactions under 10K also often get CTRs filed. [1] If you aren't withdrawing it the person who did will get the filings. > There's also minimal checking of those that leave our borders; someone could easily cross into Mexico with 100k in a breifcase of Swiss Francs and no one would be the wiser. Potentially, but unlikely. You cannot get 100K of cash lawfully without presenting ID. If you did, you committed a crime to get it, it was probably laundered, and you probably paid 2-10X that amount to launder it. You're probably a criminal. To wind up with an undocumented, untraceable 100K in a briefcase, either you or someone else committed a crime. This is part of the reason people do not cross borders with 100K in cash. It's a crime to do so without reporting it, so if found it'll be seized. It's trivial to find $100K in cash strapped to someone or on an Xray. They tend to instead obtain gift cards and move portfolios of that. > To you; to me it's built on the tree of liberty. No, crime is not liberty. It's crime. Crime is the violation of my liberties and the code of civil society because you think rights you don't have are more important than rights I do have. Again you completely ignore Wise as a much better, less volatile solution to the problem. The problem you're describing, and the world you're describing, feels a bit like finance fanfic. > The existing problem was that people would show up in cash in person, and often without either parties being vetted. The darkmarket did not totally solve this problem but it did help it, by creating a rating system and allowing people to buy items without needing to put themselves in the vicinity of a potentially dangerous drug den. No the issue with drug legislation is it impinges on the freedoms of average citizens and directly harms them via prison. A darknet market does nothing to alleviate the issue at hand. [1] https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/ctr.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/ctr.asp

quantumBerry 5y ago
>Woah. Hold up. There's no KYC for holding anything. There's always been KYC for obtaining fiat. For withdrawing fiat. For depositing fiat. For getting paid in fiat. For paying other people in fiat. It's not the holding at issue, it's the transacting. From a bank, or a money transmitter, or a traditional employer -- sure. But I could spange on the side of the road or get picked up at a home depot and do some work and get cash without KYC no problem, same for selling some personal goods or goods I buy and then sell at a markup or any number of common cash transactions. >No, they certainly are not. Any withdrawals or deposits of over 10K USD at a bank will require an ID and get you a CTR or SAR filed. If you tried to get 100K in fiat you will almost certainly get a CTR or SAR filed on you. You'll probably get a call from a bank manager, a compliance officer and/or someone from FinCEN. Ditto on the deposit. At a bank sure. If you sell a car for $15k you're supposed to report the transaction on the honor system but in reality people could take that cash, buy $15k worth of gold from a variety of sources and there would be no reporting anywhere despite the fact you sold $15k of assets and then bought $15k more of assets. >Potentially, but unlikely. You cannot get 100K of cash lawfully without presenting ID. If you did, you committed a crime to get it, it was probably laundered, and you probably paid 2-10X that amount to launder it. You're probably a criminal. Sure you can. I could pressure wash houses for $200 a house and do one everyday for 500 days. Or I could ask for spare change by the side of the road; doing that daily for a few years could probably get you 100k in a rich area and you wouldn't even need to speak English or have an ID or any relationship with a bank whatsoever, just the ability to bury your earnings in a hole somewhere. >This is part of the reason people do not cross borders with 100K in cash. It's a crime to do so without reporting it, so if found it'll be seized. It's trivial to find $100K in cash strapped to someone or on an Xray. Yes it is a crime, yet it happens all the time. The US/Mexico border is one of the most porous in the world, and I can tell you as someone has has crossed it multiple times that I have never been X-rayed entering mexico (they do have an X-ray but the guy manning it is asleep/gone/not interested much of the time). And this lack of X-ray is despite the fact the US border patrol has a SERIOUS SERIOUS hair up their ass for me that results in my long detainment everytime I enter the US (I've never broken a law but there's some weird file in my record that I'm a nefarious agent due to some actions in some 3rd world nations.) >No, crime is not liberty. It's crime Transferring and owning crypto is not always a crime. And crime is not necessarily bad. For instance, it is a crime to carry a hand gun in public for defense in Hawaii without a virtually unobtainable license, yet the constitution pretty clearly says the right to bear arms shall not be infringed. The government says servers have to pay taxes on all their tips, yet sometimes ones struggling to get by opt to not pay to fund imprisoning drug users or blowing up brown people abroad. Sometimes "crime" is liberty. In the US crime does not have to have a victim (like moving 100k in cash across the border) so it is not synonymous with a "violation of your liberties" or rights. >Again you completely ignore Wise as a much better, less volatile solution to the problem. No I specifically mentioned that to use Wise without fees it's an issue for the unbanked, which is a major problem in El Salvador. I'm glad the plight of the unbanked is "fanfic" to you. We all know the rich legal citizens who are banked have the financial upper hand including in international transactions. >No the issue with drug legislation is it impinges on the freedoms of average citizens and directly harms them via prison. We're in agreement here on the root cause, but unfortunately even marijuana is illegal federally despite many surveys showing the majority of the US does not want it criminalized. Even if drugs were legal, I'm not sure a casual crack user would benefit from going to a crack dealer full of broke people that feel they need it to survive ( I don't even feel all that safe going to some gas stations that people constantly ask for gas money at). But yeah I think crack and heroin should be sold off amazon and drug laws do impinge on the freedoms of average citizens, and I don't mean that in a sarcastic way. I don't know why you would rather people buy crack from some street dealer than buy it off an at least superficially vetted dealer on the darknet for whom there are at least reviews stating it's not laced with fentanyl.