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Using renewable energy still takes that opportunity away from other users who end up stuck with X% of their energy use provided by non-renewables, so the real c

Using renewable energy still takes that opportunity away from other users who end up stuck with X% of their energy use provided by non-renewables, so the real carbon footprint is still similar.

thebean11 5y ago
Not necessarily. That would only be true if storing and/or transporting energy was cheap or easy.
- thomastjeffery 5y ago
  Yes, that is a factor. Other factors include abandoned coal fire plants being restarted for mining. The question is not if there is a factor that is positive, but whether the positives outweigh the negatives. Every source I have seen is confident they do not.
  - thebean11 5y ago
    That's a pretty different claim from the one I replied to, but yes I agree additional consumption of fossil fuels is an important factor. The claim that consumption of renewable energy is equivalent to consumption of fossil fuels, because that renewable energy would have otherwise offset fossil fuel consumption I don't agree with though.
  - cwkoss 5y ago
    Maybe we should focus regulations on coal fire plants instead of cryptocurrency?
    - thomastjeffery 5y ago
      We can and should focus on both.
Ancapistani 5y ago
> Using renewable energy still takes that opportunity away from other users […] This would be true only if electrical capacity were completely inelastic. It is not. Electrical capacity is relatively slow to respond to changes in demand, sure, but it does respond. Consider the scale of the increase in electrical capacity that will be needed to fully move the US alone to EVs. That change will not have a hard cost cap, either - people are willing to pay quite a bit to operate their automobiles, and the current cost to operate an EV is substantially less than the cost of operating a similar ICE vehicle. Bitcoin mining does have a hard cost cap: ([Bitcoin price] * 6.25 + [Bitcoin price] * [~10 minutes of transaction fees]). In about 2024, that 6.25 will drop to 3.125. Ultimately Bitcoin mining is driven by economic forces, and those same forces are the same that control the scale of power generation worldwide. You can see Bitcoin’s energy use as being used only to secure the network; I see it as securing the network and driving incentives for the development and expansion of electrical infrastructure.

Using renewable energy still takes that opportunity away from other users who end up stuck with X% of their energy use provided by non-renewables, so the real carbon footprint is still similar.

thebean11 5y ago

Not necessarily. That would only be true if storing and/or transporting energy was cheap or easy.

thomastjeffery 5y ago
Yes, that is a factor. Other factors include abandoned coal fire plants being restarted for mining. The question is not if there is a factor that is positive, but whether the positives outweigh the negatives. Every source I have seen is confident they do not.
- thebean11 5y ago
  That's a pretty different claim from the one I replied to, but yes I agree additional consumption of fossil fuels is an important factor. The claim that consumption of renewable energy is equivalent to consumption of fossil fuels, because that renewable energy would have otherwise offset fossil fuel consumption I don't agree with though.
- cwkoss 5y ago
  Maybe we should focus regulations on coal fire plants instead of cryptocurrency?
  - thomastjeffery 5y ago
    We can and should focus on both.

Ancapistani 5y ago

> Using renewable energy still takes that opportunity away from other users […] This would be true only if electrical capacity were completely inelastic. It is not. Electrical capacity is relatively slow to respond to changes in demand, sure, but it does respond. Consider the scale of the increase in electrical capacity that will be needed to fully move the US alone to EVs. That change will not have a hard cost cap, either - people are willing to pay quite a bit to operate their automobiles, and the current cost to operate an EV is substantially less than the cost of operating a similar ICE vehicle. Bitcoin mining does have a hard cost cap: ([Bitcoin price] * 6.25 + [Bitcoin price] * [~10 minutes of transaction fees]). In about 2024, that 6.25 will drop to 3.125. Ultimately Bitcoin mining is driven by economic forces, and those same forces are the same that control the scale of power generation worldwide. You can see Bitcoin’s energy use as being used only to secure the network; I see it as securing the network and driving incentives for the development and expansion of electrical infrastructure.