7 ms·

This probably eliminates this whole "bitcoin is privacy and independence from government" thing but I think for majority of bitcoin buyers it was not more than

This probably eliminates this whole "bitcoin is privacy and independence from government" thing but I think for majority of bitcoin buyers it was not more than just a nice talking point anyway.

rgrieselhuber 5y ago
The best argument for Bitcoin is that it’s not created out of thin air and then lent to people with interest, IMO.
- okl 5y ago
  Sure, it's created out of hot air and instead of interest you have crazy transaction fees.
  - rgrieselhuber 5y ago
    Paid to whom? If it was created out of hot air, it would be a hell of a lot cheaper than it is now.
    - HWR_14 5y ago
      BTC is quite literally made out of hot air. Burning coal to create hot air to spin turbines is the most common energy source for BTC mining. And "hot air" describes most of it's coals replacements as well.
      - rgrieselhuber 5y ago
        And yet it still costs far less energy to mine Bitcoin than it does to sustain Petrodollars.
        okl 5y ago
        Do you have data for that comparison?
        ryan93 5y ago
        The entire world economy runs on fiat dollars.
        HWR_14 5y ago
        Yes, if in your analysis digging up fossil fuels to power the entire world infrastructure is just a side effect of sustaining the currency's core value. Good thing cars, airplanes and shipping have as much intrinsic value as waste heat.
  - BTCOG 5y ago
    100% BULLSHIT. The fees on Bitcoin, on chain, have been less than 75 cents the entire year of 2021. The average tx on chain the past 9 months has been about 10-15 cents. Unless you stand here trying to tell everyone that 10 cents is a crazy transaction fee. Quit lying, or better yet quit spreading FUD purposely.
    - okl 5y ago
      https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/bitcoin-transactionfees.html#3y https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/bitcoin-transactionfees... https://ycharts.com/indicators/bitcoin_average_transaction_fee https://ycharts.com/indicators/bitcoin_average_transaction_f... https://www.blockchain.com/charts/fees-usd-per-transaction https://www.blockchain.com/charts/fees-usd-per-transaction
      - BTCOG 5y ago
        https://mempool.space/ https://mempool.space/ https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/bitcoin-median_transaction_fee.html#1y https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/bitcoin-median_transact... And considering I use Bitcoin frequently, and I'm constantly, on a weekly basis sending on chain for 5 cents, 10 cents max. I'm in within a couple blocks, every single time. You are straight up spreading FUD.
        Forbo 5y ago
        > 100% BULLSHIT. The fees on Bitcoin, on chain, have been less than 75 cents the entire year of 2021. The average tx on chain the past 9 months has been about 10-15 cents. By your own sources your original claims don't hold up. So much for "100% BULLSHIT". Please stop with the zealotry, it makes the entire space look foolish.
        okl 5y ago
        Let's look at your claims again: > The fees on Bitcoin, on chain, have been less than 75 cents the entire year of 2021. The average transaction fee on April 21st was $62.779. You are wrong. > The average tx on chain the past 9 months has been about 10-15 cents. Clearly wrong. The data you cite is the median transaction fee, not the average transaction fee. For the lowest median transaction fee the chart shows 22.9 cents. Even that is above your claimed 10-15 cents. Good for you that you spent less on your transaction, doesn't change the data though.
- lottin 5y ago
  Bitcoin is created out of thin air. Where do you think bitcoins come from?
FroshKiller 5y ago
The majority of Bitcoin buyers don’t appear to be interested in its use as currency at all from what I’ve seen.
de_keyboard 5y ago
Only when using the government wallet though. I imagine people will have multiple, just like how we already have multiple debit cards, credit cards, online payment apps...
danlugo92 5y ago
> privacy From the original bitcoin white paper: > The traditional banking model achieves a level of privacy by limiting access to information to the parties involved and the trusted third party. The necessity to announce all transactions publicly precludes this method, but privacy can still be maintained by breaking the flow of information in another place: by keeping public keys anonymous. Salvadorians can transfer their BTC to a tumbling service then to a an anonymous public key. > independence from government As soon as you transfer the BTC out of the wallet, you'll be independent from the government. You are not required to use the government provided wallet if you don't need the $30 handout.
- ridethebike 5y ago
  Ok, good points

This probably eliminates this whole "bitcoin is privacy and independence from government" thing but I think for majority of bitcoin buyers it was not more than just a nice talking point anyway.

rgrieselhuber 5y ago

The best argument for Bitcoin is that it’s not created out of thin air and then lent to people with interest, IMO.

okl 5y ago
Sure, it's created out of hot air and instead of interest you have crazy transaction fees.
- rgrieselhuber 5y ago
  Paid to whom? If it was created out of hot air, it would be a hell of a lot cheaper than it is now.
  - HWR_14 5y ago
    BTC is quite literally made out of hot air. Burning coal to create hot air to spin turbines is the most common energy source for BTC mining. And "hot air" describes most of it's coals replacements as well.
    - rgrieselhuber 5y ago
      And yet it still costs far less energy to mine Bitcoin than it does to sustain Petrodollars.
      - okl 5y ago
        Do you have data for that comparison?
      - ryan93 5y ago
        The entire world economy runs on fiat dollars.
      - HWR_14 5y ago
        Yes, if in your analysis digging up fossil fuels to power the entire world infrastructure is just a side effect of sustaining the currency's core value. Good thing cars, airplanes and shipping have as much intrinsic value as waste heat.
- BTCOG 5y ago
  100% BULLSHIT. The fees on Bitcoin, on chain, have been less than 75 cents the entire year of 2021. The average tx on chain the past 9 months has been about 10-15 cents. Unless you stand here trying to tell everyone that 10 cents is a crazy transaction fee. Quit lying, or better yet quit spreading FUD purposely.
  - okl 5y ago
    https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/bitcoin-transactionfees.html#3y https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/bitcoin-transactionfees... https://ycharts.com/indicators/bitcoin_average_transaction_fee https://ycharts.com/indicators/bitcoin_average_transaction_f... https://www.blockchain.com/charts/fees-usd-per-transaction https://www.blockchain.com/charts/fees-usd-per-transaction
    - BTCOG 5y ago
      https://mempool.space/ https://mempool.space/ https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/bitcoin-median_transaction_fee.html#1y https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/bitcoin-median_transact... And considering I use Bitcoin frequently, and I'm constantly, on a weekly basis sending on chain for 5 cents, 10 cents max. I'm in within a couple blocks, every single time. You are straight up spreading FUD.
      - Forbo 5y ago
        > 100% BULLSHIT. The fees on Bitcoin, on chain, have been less than 75 cents the entire year of 2021. The average tx on chain the past 9 months has been about 10-15 cents. By your own sources your original claims don't hold up. So much for "100% BULLSHIT". Please stop with the zealotry, it makes the entire space look foolish.
      - okl 5y ago
        Let's look at your claims again: > The fees on Bitcoin, on chain, have been less than 75 cents the entire year of 2021. The average transaction fee on April 21st was $62.779. You are wrong. > The average tx on chain the past 9 months has been about 10-15 cents. Clearly wrong. The data you cite is the median transaction fee, not the average transaction fee. For the lowest median transaction fee the chart shows 22.9 cents. Even that is above your claimed 10-15 cents. Good for you that you spent less on your transaction, doesn't change the data though.
lottin 5y ago
Bitcoin is created out of thin air. Where do you think bitcoins come from?

FroshKiller 5y ago

The majority of Bitcoin buyers don’t appear to be interested in its use as currency at all from what I’ve seen.

de_keyboard 5y ago

Only when using the government wallet though. I imagine people will have multiple, just like how we already have multiple debit cards, credit cards, online payment apps...

danlugo92 5y ago

> privacy From the original bitcoin white paper: > The traditional banking model achieves a level of privacy by limiting access to information to the parties involved and the trusted third party. The necessity to announce all transactions publicly precludes this method, but privacy can still be maintained by breaking the flow of information in another place: by keeping public keys anonymous. Salvadorians can transfer their BTC to a tumbling service then to a an anonymous public key. > independence from government As soon as you transfer the BTC out of the wallet, you'll be independent from the government. You are not required to use the government provided wallet if you don't need the $30 handout.

ridethebike 5y ago
Ok, good points