3 ms·
And yet, no such democratic socialist government ever materializes. Because all nations must allocate capital efficiently to function and resist outside hostile
by bart_spoon 5y ago
And yet, no such democratic socialist government ever materializes. Because all nations must allocate capital efficiently to function and resist outside hostile forces. The capitalist option is to allow people to own private property, and trust that the supply and demand of a marketplace and individuals looking out for their personal best interest will align to allocate that capital efficiently. The tradeoff is that some individuals will be more successful than others, leading to greater accumulation of capital, and inequality between individuals.
The socialist option is to deny individuals the right to own personal capital at all to prevent said inequality, and instead to create a system to allocate capital in a way that is best for society, i.e. through the government. But it turns out that all the ways that society requires capital are practically beyond counting, and the system is so complex, that any government looking to even be minimally successful in overseeing that allocation process requires large amounts of power over virtually every aspect of society. Guess what? That's authoritarianism.
Take this thought experiment. Say we decide we want to make a new entertainment service to compete with Netflix. But creating it requires capital: money to pay programmers, money to pay for servers, money to pay for content production, etc. In a capitalist society, we just have to convince enough people that there is enough return on investment to give us their money. They don't even have to like watching TV, they just have to be convinced its a good use of their excess money. And they could be millions of people, or it could be a single individual. On the other hand, in a socialist society, we have to convince the proxy for society in charge of doling out society's collective capital (i.e. the government) to give us their money. So now the decision on what content to produce is directly influenced by the government. Even if these people are democratically elected, they will cater exclusively to the majority opinion, and in the more likely case, they will cater to whatever consolidates their power. Oops! Now you have state-controlled media. Seems unlikely the people controlling said media will devote much air-time to opposition parties or ideas, or that your functioning democracy will last very long in that scenario.
The point is that socialism without authoritarianism is a paradox. Socialism cannot function without authoritarianism, because the process of allocating capital in society is far too complex for a reasonably constrained governmental body to undertake. It needs an authoritarian level of power to effectively manage society's capital (and as history shows us, even then it rarely is actually effective). Insisting on non-authoritarian socialism is like insisting on a diet consisting exclusively of ice cream and cake while also living a long, healthy life. Perhaps it sounds nice, but it is fundamentally impossible.
- TFYS 5y agoYou assume representative democracy is the only way to make democratic decisions. With our current technology we could make such decisions using direct democracy. Imagine a collectively owned bank with a democratic decision-making process. You'd propose your idea for a Netflix competitor, and after a period of public debate the bank invests in the ideas that people decided are worth investing in. Combine direct democracy and collective ownership with fully transparent decision processes everywhere (every decision made documented and freely available to view by anyone) and I have a hard time imagining any authoritarian system emerging.
- bart_spoon 5y ago> Imagine a collectively owned bank with a democratic decision-making process. You'd propose your idea for a Netflix competitor, and after a period of public debate the bank invests in the ideas that people decided are worth investing in. There is no difference between what you write here and my example. Whether you call it a "collectively owned bank with a democratic decision-making process" or simply "ruling government, it's still a government body deciding what will and won't receive funding, and if you disagree with it there is no opt out or alternative route to investing in competitors, resulting in state-owned media. > With our current technology we could make such decisions using direct democracy. Direct democracy is impossible given the scale of the number of decisions required. We can't even get 50% of the populace to show up for elections once every 4 years. Every single issue the constituency might vote on in a direct democracy wouldn't involve 99.9% of the actual populace's input. What proportion of the population have the time and will power to follow and investigate even a fraction of the bills being voted on by their national representatives? Their state representatives? Their local government? Their school boards? Their HOA? All of that represents a pittance of the amount of decision making that would be required for the government to assume the decision making that goes into managing what currently happens in the free market. Do we really expect direct democracy to work there? That's the hubris of socialism. It assumes that the aggregate direction required to manage modern day nation-states is something that can be handled in a centralized way. Which is how the largest famines in human history have been self-imposed through communist regimes trying and failing to do so. Capitalism, for all its many faults, is decentralized enough to offer more resiliency.