7 ms·

I'm taking this as a pretty good sign. My poorly informed outsider's opinion of Russian local elections prior to this was that organised fraud was so endemic th

by ukoki 5y ago

I'm taking this as a pretty good sign. My poorly informed outsider's opinion of Russian local elections prior to this was that organised fraud was so endemic that resorting to such obvious measures would be unnecessary.

int_19h 5y ago
Not really; this kind of stuff has been around since early 90s, and especially prominent in local elections (where many voters are often not familiar with the candidates on the ballot). Organized fraud is still as endemic as always, but it still needs to be whitewashed, so every little bit helps. Same reason why they herd people at workplaces to vote - a 100% fraudulent system would just conjure turnout from thin air as needed.
baybal2 5y ago
No, they will falsify anyways. It's just them getting a complete reassurance that it's at least thrice rigged. So, what is being falsified? Everything. 1. Public polls (including fake "independent" polling companies appearing out of nowhere just few months before the elections) 2. Exit polls 3. Debates (some times fake doppelganger opposition candidates are sent to debates instead of real ones!) 4. Media landscape (again, fake opposition floods the screen time) 5. Politics on the ground (fake protest leaders, informers, provocateurs, rabble rousers sent to party meetings, fake opposition canvassers) 6. Fake party politics (fake opposition parties, genuine opposition being infiltrated, and packed full of informers, saboteurs, and etc, recruitment of turncoats) 7. Fake voters (obvious cases of people hired to vote under others' IDs, but also faked voter registration, and tallies. That's how tiny villages near arctic circle suddenly get hundreds of thousands registered voters out of nowhere) 8. Fake ballots (no explanation needed, but this also includes 20000% turnouts in mail ballot, or voting in embassies abroad) 9. Fake census data (to gerrymander, to manipulate turnout numbers, and to avoid second rounds, or minimal turnout limits in regions) 10. Fake elections (some times they don't take place at all, and people come to face a closed door, or they take place, and then they claim that they didn't happen! And then, they throw away the ballots.) 11. Fake ballot counting (well, it's the most conventional faking, but even there, there is an "innovation" — fake electoral commissions. A real one given a boot under gunpoint, and fake one comes, and stages everything.) 12. Media coverage of elections (the famous 146% Putin victory in Rostov) 13. Court system (a court claims to issue a fake recount order, but actually not issuing any orders, or a fake opposition candidate claiming to sue the incumbent candidate, or electoral comission, while not really doing so, or just blatantly claiming, that the white is black, and the ballot count was fair.) 14. Fake post-election protests (to steer people away from real ones) 15. Fake statistics (when the dust settles, alleged math geniuses, and statistics PhDs are invited to draw digits, and explain how a 146% vote victory is statistically possible) A few percents of Russia's population are employed every 4 years in this circus, just like during USSR's CPSU elections where election fakers were indoctrinated into "a deep sense of higher purpose" doing so. Small people are comforted by letting them feel themselves being "big men," and "doing stuff big boys do," if just for a few days, and at the expense of the rest of country's population.
- dukeofdoom 5y ago
  for a second there, I thought you were writing about the US election.
  - a1369209993 5y ago
    Nah, US election riggers are significantly better at subtlety (or care enough to bother, at least). Hence eg the ruling party (the Democratic and Republican Party) being nominally two separate political parties.
    - lostlogin 5y ago
      Maybe not more subtle, but more subtle than the Russians.
  - vkou 5y ago
    The US largely accomplishes its elections through corrupt primaries, gerrymandering, and voter suppression. Not all of this is relevant for every race - you can't gerrymander your way into the federal senate, for instance - but you can use it to get a 60% red legislature in a 52% blue state. It looks better when the police uses violence to prevent problem people from voting, than to manufacture votes out of thin air.
lostmsu 5y ago
They are completely rigged at all levels. Here, however, every single small region votes for his own candidate, so it is not enough to "tweak" votes a bit at local level, then at aggregate, then statewide. E.g. only 1 level of rigging works, so effect is much smaller.
selivanovp 5y ago
Despite a lot of propaganda, our elections are actually better organized with every year. Haters gonna hate, but not so many countries provide 24/7 recording webcams that allows to catch and put in jail fraudsters. A lot is made to prevent fraud, and specifically to mitigate the tactics with dopplegangers, our ballots have not only photos and names of candidates, ut a short summary of their career, place of work etc, so it’s pretty hard to vote for the wrong persone if you’re paying any attention.

by ukoki 5y ago

int_19h 5y ago

Not really; this kind of stuff has been around since early 90s, and especially prominent in local elections (where many voters are often not familiar with the candidates on the ballot). Organized fraud is still as endemic as always, but it still needs to be whitewashed, so every little bit helps. Same reason why they herd people at workplaces to vote - a 100% fraudulent system would just conjure turnout from thin air as needed.

baybal2 5y ago

No, they will falsify anyways. It's just them getting a complete reassurance that it's at least thrice rigged. So, what is being falsified? Everything. 1. Public polls (including fake "independent" polling companies appearing out of nowhere just few months before the elections) 2. Exit polls 3. Debates (some times fake doppelganger opposition candidates are sent to debates instead of real ones!) 4. Media landscape (again, fake opposition floods the screen time) 5. Politics on the ground (fake protest leaders, informers, provocateurs, rabble rousers sent to party meetings, fake opposition canvassers) 6. Fake party politics (fake opposition parties, genuine opposition being infiltrated, and packed full of informers, saboteurs, and etc, recruitment of turncoats) 7. Fake voters (obvious cases of people hired to vote under others' IDs, but also faked voter registration, and tallies. That's how tiny villages near arctic circle suddenly get hundreds of thousands registered voters out of nowhere) 8. Fake ballots (no explanation needed, but this also includes 20000% turnouts in mail ballot, or voting in embassies abroad) 9. Fake census data (to gerrymander, to manipulate turnout numbers, and to avoid second rounds, or minimal turnout limits in regions) 10. Fake elections (some times they don't take place at all, and people come to face a closed door, or they take place, and then they claim that they didn't happen! And then, they throw away the ballots.) 11. Fake ballot counting (well, it's the most conventional faking, but even there, there is an "innovation" — fake electoral commissions. A real one given a boot under gunpoint, and fake one comes, and stages everything.) 12. Media coverage of elections (the famous 146% Putin victory in Rostov) 13. Court system (a court claims to issue a fake recount order, but actually not issuing any orders, or a fake opposition candidate claiming to sue the incumbent candidate, or electoral comission, while not really doing so, or just blatantly claiming, that the white is black, and the ballot count was fair.) 14. Fake post-election protests (to steer people away from real ones) 15. Fake statistics (when the dust settles, alleged math geniuses, and statistics PhDs are invited to draw digits, and explain how a 146% vote victory is statistically possible) A few percents of Russia's population are employed every 4 years in this circus, just like during USSR's CPSU elections where election fakers were indoctrinated into "a deep sense of higher purpose" doing so. Small people are comforted by letting them feel themselves being "big men," and "doing stuff big boys do," if just for a few days, and at the expense of the rest of country's population.

dukeofdoom 5y ago
for a second there, I thought you were writing about the US election.
- a1369209993 5y ago
  Nah, US election riggers are significantly better at subtlety (or care enough to bother, at least). Hence eg the ruling party (the Democratic and Republican Party) being nominally two separate political parties.
  - lostlogin 5y ago
    Maybe not more subtle, but more subtle than the Russians.
- vkou 5y ago
  The US largely accomplishes its elections through corrupt primaries, gerrymandering, and voter suppression. Not all of this is relevant for every race - you can't gerrymander your way into the federal senate, for instance - but you can use it to get a 60% red legislature in a 52% blue state. It looks better when the police uses violence to prevent problem people from voting, than to manufacture votes out of thin air.

lostmsu 5y ago

They are completely rigged at all levels. Here, however, every single small region votes for his own candidate, so it is not enough to "tweak" votes a bit at local level, then at aggregate, then statewide. E.g. only 1 level of rigging works, so effect is much smaller.

selivanovp 5y ago

Despite a lot of propaganda, our elections are actually better organized with every year. Haters gonna hate, but not so many countries provide 24/7 recording webcams that allows to catch and put in jail fraudsters. A lot is made to prevent fraud, and specifically to mitigate the tactics with dopplegangers, our ballots have not only photos and names of candidates, ut a short summary of their career, place of work etc, so it’s pretty hard to vote for the wrong persone if you’re paying any attention.