5 ms·

There's an interesting dynamic here where imo the silent majority of progressives don't buy his approach and think it's counterproductive, but any lone soul who

There's an interesting dynamic here where imo the silent majority of progressives don't buy his approach and think it's counterproductive, but any lone soul who says so is called out, which side are you on here anyways. So this guy gets to represent himself as a spokesman for the movement and nobody really wants to contradict it under their real name.

nemo44x 5y ago
He isn't a lone wolf or something though. Critical Theory covers not only race (as in this case) but gender, sexuality, disability and fat studies, and all types of "social justice" scholarship. They all come from Postcolonial Theory (essentially deconstructing Western thought and Western Liberalism) which has had a massive influence on all of these as they have adapted them. From bell hooks and Kimberle Crenshaw (intersectionality) into leading theories on feminist and racial thought - this is the progressive and academic left. It is the leading thought in every elite university. And you can't run away from it and say "us silent majority progressives...." - a progressive is either this or they aren't progressive by today's standard. It is a social force that is trying to get inside of everything it can, from unrelated academic scholarship (look at what's in modern STEM curricula) as well as corporate America and now elite high schools. My advice is to choose Liberalism without identity politics and reject this school of thought as illiberal, totalitarian, and harmful. (For what it's worth, the entire scholarship of critical theory isn't all awful. There's good things in there and the identification of many societal problems is probably right. However, it isn't unique to them and their solutions for these problems are awful and regressive.)
- refenestrator 5y ago
  I'm not trying to let anyone off the hook, just describing the dynamics as I see them. I identify as a cultural moderate for that reason. This stuff is all divorced from actual politics, economics or governing, it's purely cultural.
zepto 5y ago
> the silent majority of progressives Really, from what I can see all of current progressivism is compatible with his approach. The silent majority of people who would have called themselves progressives a decade ago are silent because they are silenced and called racists or just right-wing if they question the new orthodoxy. Ergo, the people you are referring to as a silent majority are no longer included as progressives.
- refenestrator 5y ago
  If all of my policy preferences code as progressive but I think Kendi and the white fragility lady are jackasses, what does that make me then under your definition?
  - nemo44x 5y ago
    Charitably, cognitively dissonant and more harshly, a useful idiot some would say. I’d assume an egalitarian person who means well and has started to become suspicious of the more illiberal aspects of progressive motivations.
    - refenestrator 5y ago
      Wow. So, what, I have to vote Trump now? That won't be happening but always interesting to hear different perspectives.
      - zepto 5y ago
        > So, what, I have to vote Trump now? Why is that the implied option?
        refenestrator 5y ago
        The 'useful idiot' part that I replied to.
        5y ago
hk2001 5y ago
Perhaps, but I think it’s often less a matter of being afraid of calling extremists out, and more of what I heard someone once refer to as “sane-washing”. Progressives hear extremist views and say “when they say X, what they really are saying is Y. No one actually wants X”, when in reality that’s exactly what extremists want and it gives them cover to continue to push the Overton window until it’s no longer an extremist view. The above exchange is a perfect example.
- refenestrator 5y ago
  This is a good take and probably covers 2/3 of liberals, actually, thanks.

nemo44x 5y ago

He isn't a lone wolf or something though. Critical Theory covers not only race (as in this case) but gender, sexuality, disability and fat studies, and all types of "social justice" scholarship. They all come from Postcolonial Theory (essentially deconstructing Western thought and Western Liberalism) which has had a massive influence on all of these as they have adapted them. From bell hooks and Kimberle Crenshaw (intersectionality) into leading theories on feminist and racial thought - this is the progressive and academic left. It is the leading thought in every elite university. And you can't run away from it and say "us silent majority progressives...." - a progressive is either this or they aren't progressive by today's standard. It is a social force that is trying to get inside of everything it can, from unrelated academic scholarship (look at what's in modern STEM curricula) as well as corporate America and now elite high schools. My advice is to choose Liberalism without identity politics and reject this school of thought as illiberal, totalitarian, and harmful. (For what it's worth, the entire scholarship of critical theory isn't all awful. There's good things in there and the identification of many societal problems is probably right. However, it isn't unique to them and their solutions for these problems are awful and regressive.)

refenestrator 5y ago
I'm not trying to let anyone off the hook, just describing the dynamics as I see them. I identify as a cultural moderate for that reason. This stuff is all divorced from actual politics, economics or governing, it's purely cultural.

zepto 5y ago

> the silent majority of progressives Really, from what I can see all of current progressivism is compatible with his approach. The silent majority of people who would have called themselves progressives a decade ago are silent because they are silenced and called racists or just right-wing if they question the new orthodoxy. Ergo, the people you are referring to as a silent majority are no longer included as progressives.

refenestrator 5y ago
If all of my policy preferences code as progressive but I think Kendi and the white fragility lady are jackasses, what does that make me then under your definition?
- nemo44x 5y ago
  Charitably, cognitively dissonant and more harshly, a useful idiot some would say. I’d assume an egalitarian person who means well and has started to become suspicious of the more illiberal aspects of progressive motivations.
  - refenestrator 5y ago
    Wow. So, what, I have to vote Trump now? That won't be happening but always interesting to hear different perspectives.
    - zepto 5y ago
      > So, what, I have to vote Trump now? Why is that the implied option?
      - refenestrator 5y ago
        The 'useful idiot' part that I replied to.
        5y ago

hk2001 5y ago

Perhaps, but I think it’s often less a matter of being afraid of calling extremists out, and more of what I heard someone once refer to as “sane-washing”. Progressives hear extremist views and say “when they say X, what they really are saying is Y. No one actually wants X”, when in reality that’s exactly what extremists want and it gives them cover to continue to push the Overton window until it’s no longer an extremist view. The above exchange is a perfect example.

refenestrator 5y ago
This is a good take and probably covers 2/3 of liberals, actually, thanks.