3 ms·

Exactly. Even working retail in HS in late 90s/early 00s this was obvious. You are treated like a replaceable cog with your hours increased/decreased at manage

Exactly. Even working retail in HS in late 90s/early 00s this was obvious. You are treated like a replaceable cog with your hours increased/decreased at managements whim. Schedules were set week by week and released on Saturday or Sunday for the coming week starting Monday. If you weren't on the schedule over the weekend you'd be responsible to call in and find out your schedule. This has apparently gotten worse with computerized optimized scheduled which can be changed intraweek / people on-call / people sent home early / etc. So your paycheck & hours week to week is unstable, and even within the week if adjusted.

lotsofpulp 5y ago
Small business owners have even told me they erratically schedule the line level low paid employees so that the employees are less likely to be able to secure a second or better job. I can understand the profit motive for doing it, but I cannot understand why they would tell another human being of their intentions.
- MattGaiser 5y ago
  They are bragging. They think are clever and want people to know of their cleverness. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MesrrYyuoa4&t=151s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MesrrYyuoa4&t=151s
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    Yes, I guess I just cannot relate to the mindset of a person that would be impressed by that. Another common strategy by established immigrants or children of immigrants I know is to use a new immigrant, usually from their own country found via their own social networks, or maybe even their own distant cousin, and designate them as a manager at the minimum salary for exempt employees ($35.5k) and task them with working 60 hours a week and being on call for the more unreliable lower level employees. When you dig into it, it is obvious so much of our luxuries are based on others being dealt a shitty hand.
- codyswann 5y ago
  You should definitely post the names of these businesses
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    See almost any franchised business. Dunkin Donuts, 7 Elevens, mid to lower end motels/hotels, gas stations, etc. It also happens in other businesses (everyone wants to pay for the least amount of redundancy), but it is especially pernicious in service businesses that are on demand 24/7 operations and the staff simply being physically available is the value they provide (as opposed to businesses that can close or the work can be delayed by a day or two). For example, in a 24/7 operation, if one of the cashiers/front desk clerks/etc quits, then the manager has to fill in. Owner says manager cannot pay more than $x, and it could take weeks to find someone willing to take the job for $x. Or the people that are willing to take the job for $x are going to bounce in a short time or be unreliable, but the owner can afford to keep this wage at the low $x because they have a manager getting the $35k to $50k who is willing to work 80 hours a week. Edit: You should have seen the stink that most of the small business owners I know threw when Obama's administration increased the minimum wage for overtime exempt workers: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/obama-overtime-rules_n_573cab1fe4b0646cbeebc682 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/obama-overtime-rules_n_573cab... On that sole basis, most of them voted Republican in the 2016 election. And because they trust Republicans not to take away their 1031 exchange for real estate transactions. https://www.shrm.org/ResourcesAndTools/legal-and-compliance/employment-law/Pages/Judge-Strikes-Down-Obama-DOL's-Overtime-Rule.aspx https://www.shrm.org/ResourcesAndTools/legal-and-compliance/...
    - codyswann 5y ago
      No. No. I'm asking you about the small businesses you specifically mentioned. What businesses are you talking about?
      - lotsofpulp 5y ago
        Those are the small businesses. Dunkin Donuts, convenience stores, 7 elevens, motel 6s, holiday inn expresses, subway, jimmy johns. They are all franchised to individual owners or a small group of partners and usually have 5 to 25 employees or so at most. In these businesses, being a "manager" simply means being the fall guy for the owners and the on call person. Many times it is the owner themselves, but over the years, they can move themselves up. I saw that happen much more years ago though, new entrants do not seem to be able to move up.
throwawayboise 5y ago
When you work in a job with no required skills, yes you are (at least until recently) an easily replacable cog. The employees who realize this work to gain skills, become more valuable, and become less easily replacable. I have worked in fast food management (decades ago, started as a minimum-wage burger-flipper while in high school), and the last thing the employee schedules are based on is "management whim." Labor is the biggest controllable cost in a restaurant and you always base schedules on projected sales volume. We had schedules posted at least a week in advance and followed employee's stated availability. I'm sure, though, that not all retail/restaurant businesses are this professional. And now that $15/hr restaurant jobs are going unfilled, I guess people aren't so easily replacable. I would not want to be running a restaurant in this economy.
- steveBK123 5y ago
  Yes, management whim is not what I should used maybe "algorithmic optimization" which to those on the other side experiencing it, feels like whim? The problem with this model is that few of these companies give people more than 20-30 hour schedules.. therefore people usually need to take on 2 jobs, however each of these jobs has a non-fixed schedule, updating weekly.. So some of what may appear us unreliability and flakiness is people needing to call out to go to their other job which is programmatically booked as well. Add to this any further complexity like childcare or attempt to up skill with education and good luck.
  - throwawayboise 5y ago
    There are actually a lot of people who only want 20 hour schedules. Students, young people, people who are looking for a little supplemental income. Not everyone wants a full-time job. Companies are also not wanting to work people more than 30 hours because they then need to provide healthcare under the ACA. That's a whole other topic but it definitely hurts folks who wanted full-time or near-full-time work but didn't need health insurance.

lotsofpulp 5y ago

Small business owners have even told me they erratically schedule the line level low paid employees so that the employees are less likely to be able to secure a second or better job. I can understand the profit motive for doing it, but I cannot understand why they would tell another human being of their intentions.

MattGaiser 5y ago
They are bragging. They think are clever and want people to know of their cleverness. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MesrrYyuoa4&t=151s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MesrrYyuoa4&t=151s
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  Yes, I guess I just cannot relate to the mindset of a person that would be impressed by that. Another common strategy by established immigrants or children of immigrants I know is to use a new immigrant, usually from their own country found via their own social networks, or maybe even their own distant cousin, and designate them as a manager at the minimum salary for exempt employees ($35.5k) and task them with working 60 hours a week and being on call for the more unreliable lower level employees. When you dig into it, it is obvious so much of our luxuries are based on others being dealt a shitty hand.
codyswann 5y ago
You should definitely post the names of these businesses
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  See almost any franchised business. Dunkin Donuts, 7 Elevens, mid to lower end motels/hotels, gas stations, etc. It also happens in other businesses (everyone wants to pay for the least amount of redundancy), but it is especially pernicious in service businesses that are on demand 24/7 operations and the staff simply being physically available is the value they provide (as opposed to businesses that can close or the work can be delayed by a day or two). For example, in a 24/7 operation, if one of the cashiers/front desk clerks/etc quits, then the manager has to fill in. Owner says manager cannot pay more than $x, and it could take weeks to find someone willing to take the job for $x. Or the people that are willing to take the job for $x are going to bounce in a short time or be unreliable, but the owner can afford to keep this wage at the low $x because they have a manager getting the $35k to $50k who is willing to work 80 hours a week. Edit: You should have seen the stink that most of the small business owners I know threw when Obama's administration increased the minimum wage for overtime exempt workers: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/obama-overtime-rules_n_573cab1fe4b0646cbeebc682 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/obama-overtime-rules_n_573cab... On that sole basis, most of them voted Republican in the 2016 election. And because they trust Republicans not to take away their 1031 exchange for real estate transactions. https://www.shrm.org/ResourcesAndTools/legal-and-compliance/employment-law/Pages/Judge-Strikes-Down-Obama-DOL's-Overtime-Rule.aspx https://www.shrm.org/ResourcesAndTools/legal-and-compliance/...
  - codyswann 5y ago
    No. No. I'm asking you about the small businesses you specifically mentioned. What businesses are you talking about?
    - lotsofpulp 5y ago
      Those are the small businesses. Dunkin Donuts, convenience stores, 7 elevens, motel 6s, holiday inn expresses, subway, jimmy johns. They are all franchised to individual owners or a small group of partners and usually have 5 to 25 employees or so at most. In these businesses, being a "manager" simply means being the fall guy for the owners and the on call person. Many times it is the owner themselves, but over the years, they can move themselves up. I saw that happen much more years ago though, new entrants do not seem to be able to move up.

throwawayboise 5y ago

When you work in a job with no required skills, yes you are (at least until recently) an easily replacable cog. The employees who realize this work to gain skills, become more valuable, and become less easily replacable. I have worked in fast food management (decades ago, started as a minimum-wage burger-flipper while in high school), and the last thing the employee schedules are based on is "management whim." Labor is the biggest controllable cost in a restaurant and you always base schedules on projected sales volume. We had schedules posted at least a week in advance and followed employee's stated availability. I'm sure, though, that not all retail/restaurant businesses are this professional. And now that $15/hr restaurant jobs are going unfilled, I guess people aren't so easily replacable. I would not want to be running a restaurant in this economy.

steveBK123 5y ago
Yes, management whim is not what I should used maybe "algorithmic optimization" which to those on the other side experiencing it, feels like whim? The problem with this model is that few of these companies give people more than 20-30 hour schedules.. therefore people usually need to take on 2 jobs, however each of these jobs has a non-fixed schedule, updating weekly.. So some of what may appear us unreliability and flakiness is people needing to call out to go to their other job which is programmatically booked as well. Add to this any further complexity like childcare or attempt to up skill with education and good luck.
- throwawayboise 5y ago
  There are actually a lot of people who only want 20 hour schedules. Students, young people, people who are looking for a little supplemental income. Not everyone wants a full-time job. Companies are also not wanting to work people more than 30 hours because they then need to provide healthcare under the ACA. That's a whole other topic but it definitely hurts folks who wanted full-time or near-full-time work but didn't need health insurance.