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I always got the impression that many of these systems were designed to push workers to near breaking point on the assumption that there would always be others

I always got the impression that many of these systems were designed to push workers to near breaking point on the assumption that there would always be others to replace them. I am curious whether job satisfaction is actually down or whether people just now have a path to leaving.

lotsofpulp 5y ago
Most definitely, which is why seeing all the help wanted signs and stores/restaurants only being open for 8 hours a day makes me happy. The 1AM $5 burrito or 11PM Walmart run was always predicated on those workers not having an option to be home with their families. I am curious if we will see more price differentials for services during evening/overnight/weekend/holiday where we previously did not.
- Leherenn 5y ago
  In Switzerland, where labour is very expensive, it doesn't get more expensive, places are just closed. Supermarkets are open 8.30 a.m. to 7 p.m. (during the week, they close earlier on Saturday) and the burrito place close at 11 p.m..
  - handrous 5y ago
    That's how it was in the US not that long ago (~20-25 years ago). Then Wal-Mart starting doing 24/7, and McDonalds, and most other businesses didn't match that but did significantly expand their hours.
- handrous 5y ago
  As someone who's never thought the massively-expanded store hours since the late 90s were a good thing, that's great news. Going back to the only things open 24/7 being some gas stations and maybe the odd pharmacy or urgent care (which, most of those aren't 24/7 now, and I'd rather they be than a lot of the things that are) would be fine. McDonalds doesn't need to be 24/7. Wal-Mart doesn't need to be 24/7. I can't go shop at Costco at 10pm on a weekday, or 7pm on a Sunday, and you know what? That's OK. "But what about shift workers?" we got by before by doing our shopping on off days, including and perhaps especially people who worked normal 8-5 mon-fri shifts—it was fine, except that we couldn't always get exactly what we wanted exactly when we wanted it; and, apparently, companies weren't extracting as much money from us as they could (else, why change policy to have longer hours? Maybe that slight delay in purchasing led to us wasting less money on bullshit, go figure), plus they could still be open 12-16 hours per day and cover that use case without being open practically non-stop.
steveBK123 5y ago
Exactly. Even working retail in HS in late 90s/early 00s this was obvious. You are treated like a replaceable cog with your hours increased/decreased at managements whim. Schedules were set week by week and released on Saturday or Sunday for the coming week starting Monday. If you weren't on the schedule over the weekend you'd be responsible to call in and find out your schedule. This has apparently gotten worse with computerized optimized scheduled which can be changed intraweek / people on-call / people sent home early / etc. So your paycheck & hours week to week is unstable, and even within the week if adjusted.
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  Small business owners have even told me they erratically schedule the line level low paid employees so that the employees are less likely to be able to secure a second or better job. I can understand the profit motive for doing it, but I cannot understand why they would tell another human being of their intentions.
  - MattGaiser 5y ago
    They are bragging. They think are clever and want people to know of their cleverness. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MesrrYyuoa4&t=151s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MesrrYyuoa4&t=151s
    - lotsofpulp 5y ago
      Yes, I guess I just cannot relate to the mindset of a person that would be impressed by that. Another common strategy by established immigrants or children of immigrants I know is to use a new immigrant, usually from their own country found via their own social networks, or maybe even their own distant cousin, and designate them as a manager at the minimum salary for exempt employees ($35.5k) and task them with working 60 hours a week and being on call for the more unreliable lower level employees. When you dig into it, it is obvious so much of our luxuries are based on others being dealt a shitty hand.
  - codyswann 5y ago
samstave 5y ago
Someone I knew who worked at The French Laundry in Yountville. (Rated as the best restaurant in the world multiple times - and arguably one of the most famous restaurants in the world) It nuts how much of one's life it takes up to work there. 60+ hours a week, where commuting to Yountville is a must for most that work there, but the hours and the stress is insane. Imagine commuting an hour each way to work there, have barely a 30 minute lunch, which is a family meal that is never of the actual quality of anything ever served on the menu, no breaks and being so busy that you cant hardly take a break nor drink water, almost never a weekend off - and so tired that all you do is sleep and eat. Some people dont last a week, or a month or two - but the demands of being on point at their level is intense. No vacation time, understaffed constantly... But not much changes because there is a massive number of people who would want to work there - even though the toll on ones personal life is 100% (one couldnt imagine having kids while working there, no weekends off to spend time with friends/family who work regular m-f schedules, missing out on all social events etc...)

lotsofpulp 5y ago

Most definitely, which is why seeing all the help wanted signs and stores/restaurants only being open for 8 hours a day makes me happy. The 1AM $5 burrito or 11PM Walmart run was always predicated on those workers not having an option to be home with their families. I am curious if we will see more price differentials for services during evening/overnight/weekend/holiday where we previously did not.

Leherenn 5y ago
In Switzerland, where labour is very expensive, it doesn't get more expensive, places are just closed. Supermarkets are open 8.30 a.m. to 7 p.m. (during the week, they close earlier on Saturday) and the burrito place close at 11 p.m..
- handrous 5y ago
  That's how it was in the US not that long ago (~20-25 years ago). Then Wal-Mart starting doing 24/7, and McDonalds, and most other businesses didn't match that but did significantly expand their hours.
handrous 5y ago
As someone who's never thought the massively-expanded store hours since the late 90s were a good thing, that's great news. Going back to the only things open 24/7 being some gas stations and maybe the odd pharmacy or urgent care (which, most of those aren't 24/7 now, and I'd rather they be than a lot of the things that are) would be fine. McDonalds doesn't need to be 24/7. Wal-Mart doesn't need to be 24/7. I can't go shop at Costco at 10pm on a weekday, or 7pm on a Sunday, and you know what? That's OK. "But what about shift workers?" we got by before by doing our shopping on off days, including and perhaps especially people who worked normal 8-5 mon-fri shifts—it was fine, except that we couldn't always get exactly what we wanted exactly when we wanted it; and, apparently, companies weren't extracting as much money from us as they could (else, why change policy to have longer hours? Maybe that slight delay in purchasing led to us wasting less money on bullshit, go figure), plus they could still be open 12-16 hours per day and cover that use case without being open practically non-stop.

steveBK123 5y ago

Exactly. Even working retail in HS in late 90s/early 00s this was obvious. You are treated like a replaceable cog with your hours increased/decreased at managements whim. Schedules were set week by week and released on Saturday or Sunday for the coming week starting Monday. If you weren't on the schedule over the weekend you'd be responsible to call in and find out your schedule. This has apparently gotten worse with computerized optimized scheduled which can be changed intraweek / people on-call / people sent home early / etc. So your paycheck & hours week to week is unstable, and even within the week if adjusted.

lotsofpulp 5y ago
Small business owners have even told me they erratically schedule the line level low paid employees so that the employees are less likely to be able to secure a second or better job. I can understand the profit motive for doing it, but I cannot understand why they would tell another human being of their intentions.
- MattGaiser 5y ago
  They are bragging. They think are clever and want people to know of their cleverness. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MesrrYyuoa4&t=151s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MesrrYyuoa4&t=151s
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    Yes, I guess I just cannot relate to the mindset of a person that would be impressed by that. Another common strategy by established immigrants or children of immigrants I know is to use a new immigrant, usually from their own country found via their own social networks, or maybe even their own distant cousin, and designate them as a manager at the minimum salary for exempt employees ($35.5k) and task them with working 60 hours a week and being on call for the more unreliable lower level employees. When you dig into it, it is obvious so much of our luxuries are based on others being dealt a shitty hand.
- codyswann 5y ago

samstave 5y ago

Someone I knew who worked at The French Laundry in Yountville. (Rated as the best restaurant in the world multiple times - and arguably one of the most famous restaurants in the world) It nuts how much of one's life it takes up to work there. 60+ hours a week, where commuting to Yountville is a must for most that work there, but the hours and the stress is insane. Imagine commuting an hour each way to work there, have barely a 30 minute lunch, which is a family meal that is never of the actual quality of anything ever served on the menu, no breaks and being so busy that you cant hardly take a break nor drink water, almost never a weekend off - and so tired that all you do is sleep and eat. Some people dont last a week, or a month or two - but the demands of being on point at their level is intense. No vacation time, understaffed constantly... But not much changes because there is a massive number of people who would want to work there - even though the toll on ones personal life is 100% (one couldnt imagine having kids while working there, no weekends off to spend time with friends/family who work regular m-f schedules, missing out on all social events etc...)