14 ms·

Three near-identical Boris Vishnevskys on St Petersburg election ballot

418 points by dustintrex 5y ago

aazaa 5y ago
Maybe the most surprising thing about this is how commonplace it is for multiple candidates to share the same name. From the article: > “Double” candidates regularly pop up during Russia’s election cycles, which can be surprisingly cut-throat despite the expectation that the ruling United Russia party will maintain a majority in the Duma. The rising tide of opposition to United Russia and growing support for the Communist KPRF have apparently spooked the government and nominating doppelgängers can siphon off precious votes in close contests.
- PeterisP 5y ago
  That's not an accidental match of the names or finding "doppelgangers" somewhere, it's intentionally making doppelgangers - these "spoiler" candidates literally changed their name before the elections, one of them was born as Viktor Bykov and the other was Alexei Shmelev. The only thing they can't legally change is the patronymic, which a key part of the name in Russia and differentiates the names of these three candidates.
  - Joker_vD 5y ago
    You absolutely can change patronymics, that's how lot's of Mikhailovich's and Arkadievich's became Moishevich's and Abramovich's in the 90ies after the collapse of the USSR.
    - PeterisP 5y ago
      That's interesting - wouldn't that be because the actual fathers changed their names in those cases back to the non-Russianized versions (Moishe/Mikhail) when e.g. emigrating to Israel when that ceased to be forbidden? But in any case, those particular candidates had their names and surnames changed but for whatever reason their patronymics were left intact.
  - aazaa 5y ago
    And what I'm saying is that the change of appearance in this particular case is less surprising than the fact that double or triple name candidates on a ballot "regularly" occur.
smoyer 5y ago
This is pretty similar to Ross Perot splitting the republican vote in the U.S. '92 election except that Perot and Bush should have been political allies and instead split the vote in favor of Clinton. I can't think of an example of using this against an opponent as described in the article could certainly be used here (though I suspect using duplicate names) would be harder to hide).
- phpnode 5y ago
  I'm sure you didn't intend this, but your comment is strongly reminiscent of this classic Russian political tactic for dealing with criticism from the west: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
  - smoyer 5y ago
    I didn't intend it ... and it looks like I probably shouldn't have gone reminiscing in an HN comment!
    - morganvachon 5y ago
      HN tends to have waves of (for lack of a better term) "troll hunters" who come here with an attitude that everyone here is commenting in bad faith and must be called out for it. They will do it to commenters from all sides of an argument, even in cases like this where it was clear your comment was simply remembering a past event and not intended to be anything else. I haven't figured out if they mean well and are just sorely misguided, or are actually trolls themselves here from places like Reddit where such bad faith activity actually happens in every single post.
      - smoyer 5y ago
        I'm not in it for the karma and don't worry about being down-voted when I'm writing a thoughtful but perhaps contrary comment. Sometimes (like now) it teaches me that I'm out of step with the "mood" of the commons. That's fine too.
a-priori 5y ago
This reminds me of the 2019 Canadian federal election. There was a new party in that election led by a man named Maxime Bernier called the People's Party. They're a far-right populist party and generally awful. Bernier himself was running in Beauce, Quebec, which he had represented through the Conservative party since 2006 before he had created the People's Party. But then the Rhinoceros Party, a satirical political party, announced a new candidate for Beauce named... Maxime Bernier. When asked about the confusion, the Rhinoceros Party's Maxime Bernier said, "If you're not sure, then vote for both!". https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/maxime-bernier-rhino-party-beauce-1.5278902 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/maxime-bernier-rhino... The Conservative candidate won with 22817 votes, the People's Party candidate came second with 16772, and the Rhinoceros Party candidate came last with 1072 votes and another 1147 were rejected. This left the People's Party with no seats in parliament.
- gpm 5y ago
  > This left the People's Party with no seats in parliament. Note that even if the Rhinoceros votes went for the peoples party the same thing would have happened...
  - throwdecro 5y ago
    > Note that even if the Rhinoceros votes went for the peoples party the same thing would have happened... Which is probably for the best. If this type of trickery had made a meaningful difference, the people fooled by the trick would have had some legitimate complaints. Moreover it would have really undermined the credibility of the winner, even if it wasn't their doing.
    - wussboy 5y ago
      Maybe it's a shame that nothing of consequence hinged on it. If someone was aggrieved, we're more likely to get a court case out of it and the law changed.
  - a-priori 5y ago
    True, this probably didn't actually change the results, but it likely narrowed the margin in an already narrow vote.
silexia 5y ago
Russia is a totalitarian dictatorship, why does Putin bother with silly tactics like this? A trick to try to lend an appearance of credibility to elections?
- phpnode 5y ago
  One of Putin's defining characteristics is that he does not leave things to chance. Why wouldn't he use every tool and trick available to him in order to secure his grip on power?
- bigdict 5y ago
  Maybe precisely because he doesn't have the degree of control that would be present in an actual totalitarian dictatorship?..
  - revolvingocelot 5y ago
    I think arguing about Putin's level of control over Russia is splitting dissidents, I mean hairs. The ability to openly murder and gaslight your opponents, even when they are in other countries, is certainly within tolerances for an "actual totalitarian dictatorship"; Putin has, and flaunts, this ability. Is he publicly directing uniformed thugs to kick down doors and execute people in the streets? Well, no, but not being able to recognize Putin's Russia as a savvy, modern, post-truth translation of that classic dictatorship pattern will be met with me rolling my eyes (and then my whole body, along with some 9mm bullets, out of an upper-storey window, which will be ruled a suicide).
    - int_19h 5y ago
      "Totalitarian" implies total control - i.e. yes, the ability to direct uniform thugs to kick down doors and execute people in the streets is included in it. Putin's Russia is authoritarian, not totalitarian. That's why political opponents are murdered by assassins, not executed by firing squads.
      - 5y ago
sireat 5y ago
This is endemic in eastern European politics. It is especially prevalent among parties oriented towards Russian speaking populace in the Baltics. I've never seen it work, but maybe there is a bit of Ross Perot(not that Clinton/Bush looked like Perot) effect. PS it is hilarious that when I made a comment I didn't realize this could be taken as a what-aboutism comment. So on a meta level I should be more lenient when posters do similar things in other threads. Maybe not every poster is actively engaging in organized https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism but there is an urge to draw parallels on some psychological level.
- smcl 5y ago
  I think you can usually ignore people who complain about "whataboutism" - on HN at least it usually boils down to someone trying to dismiss a legitimate comparison with "Hey you can't say that, I said it first!"
  - oh_sigh 5y ago
    "you're ruining my point by showing my hypocrisy"
    - smcl 5y ago
      Precisely. Also I think I'm being downvoted by people misinterpreting my use of "usually" as "in every single case without exception". But anecdotally, nearly every time I've seen the whataboutism response it has been in that context I described - someone trying to dismiss a legitimate criticism by deploying what they think is a sort of cheat code.
    - FpUser 5y ago
      Exact reason I think ;) Or maybe they feel so righteous that they do not even notice their hypocrisy.
- jgilias 5y ago
  Do you have any sources? I'm from the Baltics and I've never ever heard of anything similar going on in any of the three countries.
huhtenberg 5y ago
Eddie Murphy is a household name in Russia and someone must've been just helping themselves to some material from one of his movies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Distinguished_Gentleman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Distinguished_Gentleman Talk about life imitating art and all that.
no_time 5y ago
Easy solution: Cattle ear tags for politicians.
- revolvingocelot 5y ago
  A more humane solution would be NASCAR-style jumpsuits, worn by law for all government business, emblazoned with logos of their moneyed sponsors. "Ah, there's my guy, he's the one beholden to land developers." Of course, I'm not sure how that'd work in Russia. I assume at least some of the criminal masterminds who fill the role of the West's owner class have a, like, inkan [0] or something. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seal_(East_Asia)#Japanese_usage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seal_(East_Asia)#Japanese_usag...
  - imback 5y ago
    Perhaps as a compromise, a leg band like the ones they use to track birds except with anti-tampering features and a GPS.
    - lostlogin 5y ago
      This would be handy, and if high ranking unelected officials could wear them too it would be good. The various UK sagas for lockdown eye checks etc would be easier to monitor.
  - exabrial 5y ago
    This would be nice, because we'd finally has some transparency on who they're being sponsored by.
- Ekaros 5y ago
  Or branding their faces.
JackFr 5y ago
I worked with Boris Vishnevsky! Oh wait, different guy ... (But I really did.)
- tclancy 5y ago
  Yes, but which one?
buybackoff 5y ago
Lots of discussions whether it will work or not. Same as 10k rubles payout for seniors. Likely people are not so much stupid and such things won't work per se. But in Russia there is the second step: falsify the elections and explain that people voted for a fake or for the party they hate because of the payout. A casual observer will have less questions, or there will be an "explanation".
- gunapologist99 5y ago
  Dirty tricks can also give actual vote rigging plausibility cover, and increase the inevitability factor.
flopp 5y ago
In web-terms: a "Homograph Attack" (=> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IDN_homograph_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IDN_homograph_attack)
ukoki 5y ago
I'm taking this as a pretty good sign. My poorly informed outsider's opinion of Russian local elections prior to this was that organised fraud was so endemic that resorting to such obvious measures would be unnecessary.
- int_19h 5y ago
  Not really; this kind of stuff has been around since early 90s, and especially prominent in local elections (where many voters are often not familiar with the candidates on the ballot). Organized fraud is still as endemic as always, but it still needs to be whitewashed, so every little bit helps. Same reason why they herd people at workplaces to vote - a 100% fraudulent system would just conjure turnout from thin air as needed.
- baybal2 5y ago
  No, they will falsify anyways. It's just them getting a complete reassurance that it's at least thrice rigged. So, what is being falsified? Everything. 1. Public polls (including fake "independent" polling companies appearing out of nowhere just few months before the elections) 2. Exit polls 3. Debates (some times fake doppelganger opposition candidates are sent to debates instead of real ones!) 4. Media landscape (again, fake opposition floods the screen time) 5. Politics on the ground (fake protest leaders, informers, provocateurs, rabble rousers sent to party meetings, fake opposition canvassers) 6. Fake party politics (fake opposition parties, genuine opposition being infiltrated, and packed full of informers, saboteurs, and etc, recruitment of turncoats) 7. Fake voters (obvious cases of people hired to vote under others' IDs, but also faked voter registration, and tallies. That's how tiny villages near arctic circle suddenly get hundreds of thousands registered voters out of nowhere) 8. Fake ballots (no explanation needed, but this also includes 20000% turnouts in mail ballot, or voting in embassies abroad) 9. Fake census data (to gerrymander, to manipulate turnout numbers, and to avoid second rounds, or minimal turnout limits in regions) 10. Fake elections (some times they don't take place at all, and people come to face a closed door, or they take place, and then they claim that they didn't happen! And then, they throw away the ballots.) 11. Fake ballot counting (well, it's the most conventional faking, but even there, there is an "innovation" — fake electoral commissions. A real one given a boot under gunpoint, and fake one comes, and stages everything.) 12. Media coverage of elections (the famous 146% Putin victory in Rostov) 13. Court system (a court claims to issue a fake recount order, but actually not issuing any orders, or a fake opposition candidate claiming to sue the incumbent candidate, or electoral comission, while not really doing so, or just blatantly claiming, that the white is black, and the ballot count was fair.) 14. Fake post-election protests (to steer people away from real ones) 15. Fake statistics (when the dust settles, alleged math geniuses, and statistics PhDs are invited to draw digits, and explain how a 146% vote victory is statistically possible) A few percents of Russia's population are employed every 4 years in this circus, just like during USSR's CPSU elections where election fakers were indoctrinated into "a deep sense of higher purpose" doing so. Small people are comforted by letting them feel themselves being "big men," and "doing stuff big boys do," if just for a few days, and at the expense of the rest of country's population.
NortySpock 5y ago
Happened in Florida in 2020 as well... https://www.tampabay.com/opinion/2020/12/02/the-name-is-the-same-but-theyre-different-florida-candidates-column/ https://www.tampabay.com/opinion/2020/12/02/the-name-is-the-... https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/11/20/florida-election-trump-senator-rodriguez/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/11/20/florida-ele... https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/frank-artiles-ileana-garcia-florida-election-b1820020.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politic...
- sam_lowry_ 5y ago
  The Russian case will likely end differently.
  - robbedpeter 5y ago
    Maybe the assassination will be recorded on dashcam? (/s, hopefully)
  - IAmEveryone 5y ago
    Trump will win?
- drocer88 5y ago
  John F. Kennedy used this trick: https://www.politico.com/gallery/2012/06/16-worst-political-dirty-tricks/000188-002246.html https://www.politico.com/gallery/2012/06/16-worst-political-... Note the two "Joseph Russo" entries on the ballot: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_history_of_John_F._Kennedy#U.S._House_of_Representatives_elections_(1946%E2%80%931950) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_history_of_John_F._K...
  - fennecfoxen 5y ago
    Barack Obama won his first election using a different procedural trick — he looked up his three opponents' ballot petitions, and challenged enough of the signatures on the petitions that they were all delisted.
golergka 5y ago
A comment for outsiders: Russian elections are multi-layered. When dominance of Putin and his party is threatened, then the state will employ everything it's power. But within his own party, and on many local levels, there's also a lot of competition — and there, elections can be much less fraudulent. So, those local crooks can't rely on repressive apparatus of the whole state, and have to revert to political technologies and tricks which are usually used in developed democracies. Boris Vishnevsky, as many other candidates (including my own father) are being elected not through centralised party lists, but through single-mandate districts. (I think it's similar to UK electorate system). And while United Russia (Putin's party) total numbers over the whole country will be very tightly controlled, results of those district-based elections are, in general, much more honest.
ccleve 5y ago
A friend of mine (and my successor as chairman of the Chicago Republican Party) filed a case in the U.S. Supreme Court this week over the same tactic right here in Chicago. https://www.chicagotribune.com/politics/ct-michael-madigan-candidate-lawsuit-20210902-wagpy3bdznfr5ifsm7baqnmzdu-story.html https://www.chicagotribune.com/politics/ct-michael-madigan-c... If we win this thing, then filing sham candidates will become illegal in the U.S. It's an utterly corrupt practice.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- sct202 5y ago
  Not this particular case but just to give context on why padding the primary with sham candidates of the same ethnic group is an issue, but also in Chicago it has happened that people change their names to imply certain ethnic/heritage/characteristics like Phillip Spiwak (R) became Shannon P. O’Malley (D) to win an elected judge position in 2018 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/illinois-judge-candidate-insists-he-s-o-malley-critics-call-n845651 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/illinois-judge-candidat...
  - lrem 5y ago
    There was a movie about a person searching their Irish ancestors. Ended with the protagonist confronting their father, who admitted they made it up to win votes. The movie must be decades old now.
  - rory 5y ago
    John Kerry comes to mind here, although at least the official story states that his grandfather chose an Irish name essentially through dumb luck.
  - juped 5y ago
    Warren "Bill de Blasio" Wilhelm.
  - sangnoir 5y ago
    "Bobby" Jindal, "Ted" Cruz, etc.
perryizgr8 5y ago
If this happened in India, the SC would strike it down so hard. You don't need a law for every specific wrongdoing. You just need a decent judicial system.
- s_trumpet 5y ago
  The practice of assigning electoral symbols to each political party is also very useful for differentiating them. https://edition.cnn.com/style/article/india-election-party-symbols/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/style/article/india-election-party-s...
  - int_19h 5y ago
    Russian electoral system allows for unaffiliated candidates, and spoilers usually run as such.
    - unmole 5y ago
      Unaffiliated candidates or independents as they are called are also assigned a symbol. The symbols of recognised political parties are fairly common knowledge and are emphasised during rge campaign
- roveo 5y ago
  Which is why there's no decent judicial system here
- unmole 5y ago
  This happens in Indian elections all the time. And I'm rather surprised to find someone holding the Indian judicial system in such high regard.
dane-pgp 5y ago
Do Russian ballot papers not include the name of the candidate's political party? Ideally they would also include the parties' logos, which would be required to be distinct from previously-registered logos, so that people with literacy problems could still vote confidently.
- roveo 5y ago
  In this year's elections, many of the pro-regime candidates are registered as having no party affiliation because of the very bad ratings of United Russia party. Also, the authorities don't care about people voting confidently at all, quite the opposite. It's mandated by law though to list candidates' previous names if changed, which is done in this case. But you have to be aware of this spoiler strategy to notice, which most people aren't.
  - lostlogin 5y ago
    > Also, the authorities don't care about people voting confidently at all, quite the opposite. Can you explain this?
    - astronautjones 5y ago
      they want low turnout
- alkonaut 5y ago
  If I were United Russia I’d make sure there were no party names or logos on the ballots. Also randomize the order of candidates between ballots so word couldn’t get out saying “it’s the middle Boris”.
- selivanovp 5y ago
  Of course we have, and not only party, but a short summary of candidate achievements, place of work etc. So the trick may work only for a very busy people, not looking closely what they’re voting for.
grishka 5y ago
Why do they even go through this much trouble when they can just count votes such that Единая Россия comes out as a winner, like they did on every election I remember. They stuff ballots into boxes. They invalidate ballots with "wrong" votes. They just simply change the numbers in the protocols without anyone rechecking or recounting. Worst of all, the people who do it are usually school teachers, because polling stations are often in schools. Yes, I'll go and vote anyway. No, this won't change the outcome, but at least I'll be able to tell myself that I did my part.
- IAmEveryone 5y ago
  It's terribly hard to actually falsify the vote counts across thousands of polling places. In theory, someone observing the process, as should be legal everywhere, will notice the irregularities. It's not impossible, obviously–especially if you have full control of at least anyone important. But plausible deniability suffers rather fast, and that's a valuable assets at the Putin-level of dic(tator|k)ishness.
  - grishka 5y ago
    Oh they interfere with observers a lot. It's a battle, really. Sometimes, in some far-flung region, an election will end up being fair. Then they still find a way to ultimately "fix" the outcome — see what happened in Khabarovsk with everyone's favorite mayor Sergey Furgal. They found a court case on him from very long ago, arrested him, flew him to Moscow, then Putin dismissed him from mayorship "for loss of trust". Yeah sure, people elected him and had no problems with him, but it's lack of Putin's trust that caused him to lose his office against his and people's will.
  - gunapologist99 5y ago
    Usually only a few polling places actually determine an election. Based on historical vote data, you'd only flip votes in the few locations where it actually matters; for example, a few counties in a few swing states, or anywhere where the votes can be cured or recounted without being observed. It's strange that people really don't realize how easy it is to cheat; just a little bit of leverage in the right place can tip an election.
exabrial 5y ago
Well obviously the solution is to legally change you name to "Real Boris Vishnevskys"
- Grustaf 5y ago
  Or add a blue check emoji to his name.
trhway 5y ago
Imagine what they would do with a good AI. Anyway, a recent anekdot from Russian democracy illustrating why the ruling power is so obstructing oppositional candidates. A mayor of small town to make elections legally democratic, ie to have at least 2 candidates while of course not allowing any real oppositional candidates, ran his office janitor woman against himself. The people voted for the janitor.
ithkuil 5y ago
Local elections for mayor here: Arianna Buti vs Monia Buti. The town name is also Buti...
ChicagoDave 5y ago
I live in US IL-14. This would be like me changing my name to Lorne Underwood and running as a Republican.
mig39 5y ago
The Rhinoceros Party did this in Canada, in the 80s. They found a guy named "John Turner" to run against the prime minister of the same name, in the same riding. Funny stuff! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhinoceros_Party https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhinoceros_Party
pvaldes 5y ago
In Spain not much years ago happened a slightly different but related trick. A party changed late their logo in the ballots to a circle. Casually their rivals from the opposite ideology had adopted before a thin circle as a logo in the voting sheets (shared by all parties). The second circle was more thick (and more visible) than the other and had different letters inside. Clearly different for people with a good sight, maybe not so much for elders. I bet that this didn't helped at the hour of counting the ballots and I wouldn't be surprised to know that a few votes were assigned wrongly that night at the slighest opportunity.
hamilyon2 5y ago
Oh, two nearly identical doppelgangers, with matching appearance, age and name? I wouldn't hesitate to follow great old russian tradition and take a loan. A few million rubles in cash here and there from those shady and unscrupulous lenders, then miss a payment or two and see what happens! A completely legal way to remind those people that Russia isn't European country yet. Nor Saint Petersburg is Miami.
- Grustaf 5y ago
  > Nor Saint Petersburg is Miami True enough. Saint Petersburg has a fantastic history, brought us some of the most important writers in history and is full of theatres, palaces and one of the best museums in the world. It's also very beautiful.
Grustaf 5y ago
In Sweden they do the opposite, they have half a dozen parties with almost identical politics. Also very effective.
abecedarius 5y ago
Yet another point for approval voting ( / score voting). You'd have to confuse people into not just picking the decoy but also dropping the original.
sfblah 5y ago
Interestingly, the three candidates do have different patronymics. So, at least in principle it should be possible to disambiguate them.
WhompingWindows 5y ago
This example is extremely egregious - can anyone fact check on those identical names and very similar pictures? Other commenters have posted American examples as well, which while blatant are not nearly as egregious as the Russian example. Just goes to show, true democracy is hard to enact.
chmod600 5y ago
If Bobby Tables gets involved, this will get worse before it gets better: https://m.xkcd.com/327/ https://m.xkcd.com/327/
ummwhat 5y ago
I know arrows theorem says something about spoiler candidates and irrelevant identical alternatives, but I didn't think it manifested quite like this.
6510 5y ago
Name changes should be refused or rolled back when the request ever so slightly smells like identity theft.

418 points by dustintrex 5y ago

Maybe the most surprising thing about this is how commonplace it is for multiple candidates to share the same name. From the article: > “Double” candidates regularly pop up during Russia’s election cycles, which can be surprisingly cut-throat despite the expectation that the ruling United Russia party will maintain a majority in the Duma. The rising tide of opposition to United Russia and growing support for the Communist KPRF have apparently spooked the government and nominating doppelgängers can siphon off precious votes in close contests.

PeterisP 5y ago
That's not an accidental match of the names or finding "doppelgangers" somewhere, it's intentionally making doppelgangers - these "spoiler" candidates literally changed their name before the elections, one of them was born as Viktor Bykov and the other was Alexei Shmelev. The only thing they can't legally change is the patronymic, which a key part of the name in Russia and differentiates the names of these three candidates.
- Joker_vD 5y ago
  You absolutely can change patronymics, that's how lot's of Mikhailovich's and Arkadievich's became Moishevich's and Abramovich's in the 90ies after the collapse of the USSR.
  - PeterisP 5y ago
    That's interesting - wouldn't that be because the actual fathers changed their names in those cases back to the non-Russianized versions (Moishe/Mikhail) when e.g. emigrating to Israel when that ceased to be forbidden? But in any case, those particular candidates had their names and surnames changed but for whatever reason their patronymics were left intact.
- aazaa 5y ago
  And what I'm saying is that the change of appearance in this particular case is less surprising than the fact that double or triple name candidates on a ballot "regularly" occur.

smoyer 5y ago

This is pretty similar to Ross Perot splitting the republican vote in the U.S. '92 election except that Perot and Bush should have been political allies and instead split the vote in favor of Clinton. I can't think of an example of using this against an opponent as described in the article could certainly be used here (though I suspect using duplicate names) would be harder to hide).

phpnode 5y ago
I'm sure you didn't intend this, but your comment is strongly reminiscent of this classic Russian political tactic for dealing with criticism from the west: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
- smoyer 5y ago
  I didn't intend it ... and it looks like I probably shouldn't have gone reminiscing in an HN comment!
  - morganvachon 5y ago
    HN tends to have waves of (for lack of a better term) "troll hunters" who come here with an attitude that everyone here is commenting in bad faith and must be called out for it. They will do it to commenters from all sides of an argument, even in cases like this where it was clear your comment was simply remembering a past event and not intended to be anything else. I haven't figured out if they mean well and are just sorely misguided, or are actually trolls themselves here from places like Reddit where such bad faith activity actually happens in every single post.
    - smoyer 5y ago
      I'm not in it for the karma and don't worry about being down-voted when I'm writing a thoughtful but perhaps contrary comment. Sometimes (like now) it teaches me that I'm out of step with the "mood" of the commons. That's fine too.

a-priori 5y ago

This reminds me of the 2019 Canadian federal election. There was a new party in that election led by a man named Maxime Bernier called the People's Party. They're a far-right populist party and generally awful. Bernier himself was running in Beauce, Quebec, which he had represented through the Conservative party since 2006 before he had created the People's Party. But then the Rhinoceros Party, a satirical political party, announced a new candidate for Beauce named... Maxime Bernier. When asked about the confusion, the Rhinoceros Party's Maxime Bernier said, "If you're not sure, then vote for both!". https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/maxime-bernier-rhino-party-beauce-1.5278902 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/maxime-bernier-rhino... The Conservative candidate won with 22817 votes, the People's Party candidate came second with 16772, and the Rhinoceros Party candidate came last with 1072 votes and another 1147 were rejected. This left the People's Party with no seats in parliament.

gpm 5y ago
> This left the People's Party with no seats in parliament. Note that even if the Rhinoceros votes went for the peoples party the same thing would have happened...
- throwdecro 5y ago
  > Note that even if the Rhinoceros votes went for the peoples party the same thing would have happened... Which is probably for the best. If this type of trickery had made a meaningful difference, the people fooled by the trick would have had some legitimate complaints. Moreover it would have really undermined the credibility of the winner, even if it wasn't their doing.
  - wussboy 5y ago
    Maybe it's a shame that nothing of consequence hinged on it. If someone was aggrieved, we're more likely to get a court case out of it and the law changed.
- a-priori 5y ago
  True, this probably didn't actually change the results, but it likely narrowed the margin in an already narrow vote.

silexia 5y ago

Russia is a totalitarian dictatorship, why does Putin bother with silly tactics like this? A trick to try to lend an appearance of credibility to elections?

phpnode 5y ago
One of Putin's defining characteristics is that he does not leave things to chance. Why wouldn't he use every tool and trick available to him in order to secure his grip on power?
bigdict 5y ago
Maybe precisely because he doesn't have the degree of control that would be present in an actual totalitarian dictatorship?..
- revolvingocelot 5y ago
  I think arguing about Putin's level of control over Russia is splitting dissidents, I mean hairs. The ability to openly murder and gaslight your opponents, even when they are in other countries, is certainly within tolerances for an "actual totalitarian dictatorship"; Putin has, and flaunts, this ability. Is he publicly directing uniformed thugs to kick down doors and execute people in the streets? Well, no, but not being able to recognize Putin's Russia as a savvy, modern, post-truth translation of that classic dictatorship pattern will be met with me rolling my eyes (and then my whole body, along with some 9mm bullets, out of an upper-storey window, which will be ruled a suicide).
  - int_19h 5y ago
    "Totalitarian" implies total control - i.e. yes, the ability to direct uniform thugs to kick down doors and execute people in the streets is included in it. Putin's Russia is authoritarian, not totalitarian. That's why political opponents are murdered by assassins, not executed by firing squads.
    - 5y ago

sireat 5y ago

This is endemic in eastern European politics. It is especially prevalent among parties oriented towards Russian speaking populace in the Baltics. I've never seen it work, but maybe there is a bit of Ross Perot(not that Clinton/Bush looked like Perot) effect. PS it is hilarious that when I made a comment I didn't realize this could be taken as a what-aboutism comment. So on a meta level I should be more lenient when posters do similar things in other threads. Maybe not every poster is actively engaging in organized https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism but there is an urge to draw parallels on some psychological level.

smcl 5y ago
I think you can usually ignore people who complain about "whataboutism" - on HN at least it usually boils down to someone trying to dismiss a legitimate comparison with "Hey you can't say that, I said it first!"
- oh_sigh 5y ago
  "you're ruining my point by showing my hypocrisy"
  - smcl 5y ago
    Precisely. Also I think I'm being downvoted by people misinterpreting my use of "usually" as "in every single case without exception". But anecdotally, nearly every time I've seen the whataboutism response it has been in that context I described - someone trying to dismiss a legitimate criticism by deploying what they think is a sort of cheat code.
  - FpUser 5y ago
    Exact reason I think ;) Or maybe they feel so righteous that they do not even notice their hypocrisy.
jgilias 5y ago
Do you have any sources? I'm from the Baltics and I've never ever heard of anything similar going on in any of the three countries.

huhtenberg 5y ago

Eddie Murphy is a household name in Russia and someone must've been just helping themselves to some material from one of his movies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Distinguished_Gentleman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Distinguished_Gentleman Talk about life imitating art and all that.

no_time 5y ago

Easy solution: Cattle ear tags for politicians.

revolvingocelot 5y ago
A more humane solution would be NASCAR-style jumpsuits, worn by law for all government business, emblazoned with logos of their moneyed sponsors. "Ah, there's my guy, he's the one beholden to land developers." Of course, I'm not sure how that'd work in Russia. I assume at least some of the criminal masterminds who fill the role of the West's owner class have a, like, inkan [0] or something. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seal_(East_Asia)#Japanese_usage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seal_(East_Asia)#Japanese_usag...
- imback 5y ago
  Perhaps as a compromise, a leg band like the ones they use to track birds except with anti-tampering features and a GPS.
  - lostlogin 5y ago
    This would be handy, and if high ranking unelected officials could wear them too it would be good. The various UK sagas for lockdown eye checks etc would be easier to monitor.
- exabrial 5y ago
  This would be nice, because we'd finally has some transparency on who they're being sponsored by.
Ekaros 5y ago
Or branding their faces.

JackFr 5y ago

I worked with Boris Vishnevsky! Oh wait, different guy ... (But I really did.)

tclancy 5y ago
Yes, but which one?

buybackoff 5y ago

Lots of discussions whether it will work or not. Same as 10k rubles payout for seniors. Likely people are not so much stupid and such things won't work per se. But in Russia there is the second step: falsify the elections and explain that people voted for a fake or for the party they hate because of the payout. A casual observer will have less questions, or there will be an "explanation".

gunapologist99 5y ago
Dirty tricks can also give actual vote rigging plausibility cover, and increase the inevitability factor.

flopp 5y ago

In web-terms: a "Homograph Attack" (=> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IDN_homograph_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IDN_homograph_attack)

ukoki 5y ago

I'm taking this as a pretty good sign. My poorly informed outsider's opinion of Russian local elections prior to this was that organised fraud was so endemic that resorting to such obvious measures would be unnecessary.

int_19h 5y ago
Not really; this kind of stuff has been around since early 90s, and especially prominent in local elections (where many voters are often not familiar with the candidates on the ballot). Organized fraud is still as endemic as always, but it still needs to be whitewashed, so every little bit helps. Same reason why they herd people at workplaces to vote - a 100% fraudulent system would just conjure turnout from thin air as needed.
baybal2 5y ago
No, they will falsify anyways. It's just them getting a complete reassurance that it's at least thrice rigged. So, what is being falsified? Everything. 1. Public polls (including fake "independent" polling companies appearing out of nowhere just few months before the elections) 2. Exit polls 3. Debates (some times fake doppelganger opposition candidates are sent to debates instead of real ones!) 4. Media landscape (again, fake opposition floods the screen time) 5. Politics on the ground (fake protest leaders, informers, provocateurs, rabble rousers sent to party meetings, fake opposition canvassers) 6. Fake party politics (fake opposition parties, genuine opposition being infiltrated, and packed full of informers, saboteurs, and etc, recruitment of turncoats) 7. Fake voters (obvious cases of people hired to vote under others' IDs, but also faked voter registration, and tallies. That's how tiny villages near arctic circle suddenly get hundreds of thousands registered voters out of nowhere) 8. Fake ballots (no explanation needed, but this also includes 20000% turnouts in mail ballot, or voting in embassies abroad) 9. Fake census data (to gerrymander, to manipulate turnout numbers, and to avoid second rounds, or minimal turnout limits in regions) 10. Fake elections (some times they don't take place at all, and people come to face a closed door, or they take place, and then they claim that they didn't happen! And then, they throw away the ballots.) 11. Fake ballot counting (well, it's the most conventional faking, but even there, there is an "innovation" — fake electoral commissions. A real one given a boot under gunpoint, and fake one comes, and stages everything.) 12. Media coverage of elections (the famous 146% Putin victory in Rostov) 13. Court system (a court claims to issue a fake recount order, but actually not issuing any orders, or a fake opposition candidate claiming to sue the incumbent candidate, or electoral comission, while not really doing so, or just blatantly claiming, that the white is black, and the ballot count was fair.) 14. Fake post-election protests (to steer people away from real ones) 15. Fake statistics (when the dust settles, alleged math geniuses, and statistics PhDs are invited to draw digits, and explain how a 146% vote victory is statistically possible) A few percents of Russia's population are employed every 4 years in this circus, just like during USSR's CPSU elections where election fakers were indoctrinated into "a deep sense of higher purpose" doing so. Small people are comforted by letting them feel themselves being "big men," and "doing stuff big boys do," if just for a few days, and at the expense of the rest of country's population.

NortySpock 5y ago

Happened in Florida in 2020 as well... https://www.tampabay.com/opinion/2020/12/02/the-name-is-the-same-but-theyre-different-florida-candidates-column/ https://www.tampabay.com/opinion/2020/12/02/the-name-is-the-... https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/11/20/florida-election-trump-senator-rodriguez/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/11/20/florida-ele... https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/frank-artiles-ileana-garcia-florida-election-b1820020.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politic...

sam_lowry_ 5y ago
The Russian case will likely end differently.
- robbedpeter 5y ago
  Maybe the assassination will be recorded on dashcam? (/s, hopefully)
- IAmEveryone 5y ago
  Trump will win?
drocer88 5y ago
John F. Kennedy used this trick: https://www.politico.com/gallery/2012/06/16-worst-political-dirty-tricks/000188-002246.html https://www.politico.com/gallery/2012/06/16-worst-political-... Note the two "Joseph Russo" entries on the ballot: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_history_of_John_F._Kennedy#U.S._House_of_Representatives_elections_(1946%E2%80%931950) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_history_of_John_F._K...
- fennecfoxen 5y ago
  Barack Obama won his first election using a different procedural trick — he looked up his three opponents' ballot petitions, and challenged enough of the signatures on the petitions that they were all delisted.

golergka 5y ago

A comment for outsiders: Russian elections are multi-layered. When dominance of Putin and his party is threatened, then the state will employ everything it's power. But within his own party, and on many local levels, there's also a lot of competition — and there, elections can be much less fraudulent. So, those local crooks can't rely on repressive apparatus of the whole state, and have to revert to political technologies and tricks which are usually used in developed democracies. Boris Vishnevsky, as many other candidates (including my own father) are being elected not through centralised party lists, but through single-mandate districts. (I think it's similar to UK electorate system). And while United Russia (Putin's party) total numbers over the whole country will be very tightly controlled, results of those district-based elections are, in general, much more honest.

ccleve 5y ago

A friend of mine (and my successor as chairman of the Chicago Republican Party) filed a case in the U.S. Supreme Court this week over the same tactic right here in Chicago. https://www.chicagotribune.com/politics/ct-michael-madigan-candidate-lawsuit-20210902-wagpy3bdznfr5ifsm7baqnmzdu-story.html https://www.chicagotribune.com/politics/ct-michael-madigan-c... If we win this thing, then filing sham candidates will become illegal in the U.S. It's an utterly corrupt practice.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
sct202 5y ago
Not this particular case but just to give context on why padding the primary with sham candidates of the same ethnic group is an issue, but also in Chicago it has happened that people change their names to imply certain ethnic/heritage/characteristics like Phillip Spiwak (R) became Shannon P. O’Malley (D) to win an elected judge position in 2018 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/illinois-judge-candidate-insists-he-s-o-malley-critics-call-n845651 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/illinois-judge-candidat...
- lrem 5y ago
  There was a movie about a person searching their Irish ancestors. Ended with the protagonist confronting their father, who admitted they made it up to win votes. The movie must be decades old now.
- rory 5y ago
  John Kerry comes to mind here, although at least the official story states that his grandfather chose an Irish name essentially through dumb luck.
- juped 5y ago
  Warren "Bill de Blasio" Wilhelm.
- sangnoir 5y ago
  "Bobby" Jindal, "Ted" Cruz, etc.

perryizgr8 5y ago

If this happened in India, the SC would strike it down so hard. You don't need a law for every specific wrongdoing. You just need a decent judicial system.

s_trumpet 5y ago
The practice of assigning electoral symbols to each political party is also very useful for differentiating them. https://edition.cnn.com/style/article/india-election-party-symbols/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/style/article/india-election-party-s...
- int_19h 5y ago
  Russian electoral system allows for unaffiliated candidates, and spoilers usually run as such.
  - unmole 5y ago
    Unaffiliated candidates or independents as they are called are also assigned a symbol. The symbols of recognised political parties are fairly common knowledge and are emphasised during rge campaign
roveo 5y ago
Which is why there's no decent judicial system here
unmole 5y ago
This happens in Indian elections all the time. And I'm rather surprised to find someone holding the Indian judicial system in such high regard.

dane-pgp 5y ago

Do Russian ballot papers not include the name of the candidate's political party? Ideally they would also include the parties' logos, which would be required to be distinct from previously-registered logos, so that people with literacy problems could still vote confidently.

roveo 5y ago
In this year's elections, many of the pro-regime candidates are registered as having no party affiliation because of the very bad ratings of United Russia party. Also, the authorities don't care about people voting confidently at all, quite the opposite. It's mandated by law though to list candidates' previous names if changed, which is done in this case. But you have to be aware of this spoiler strategy to notice, which most people aren't.
- lostlogin 5y ago
  > Also, the authorities don't care about people voting confidently at all, quite the opposite. Can you explain this?
  - astronautjones 5y ago
    they want low turnout
alkonaut 5y ago
If I were United Russia I’d make sure there were no party names or logos on the ballots. Also randomize the order of candidates between ballots so word couldn’t get out saying “it’s the middle Boris”.
selivanovp 5y ago
Of course we have, and not only party, but a short summary of candidate achievements, place of work etc. So the trick may work only for a very busy people, not looking closely what they’re voting for.

grishka 5y ago

Why do they even go through this much trouble when they can just count votes such that Единая Россия comes out as a winner, like they did on every election I remember. They stuff ballots into boxes. They invalidate ballots with "wrong" votes. They just simply change the numbers in the protocols without anyone rechecking or recounting. Worst of all, the people who do it are usually school teachers, because polling stations are often in schools. Yes, I'll go and vote anyway. No, this won't change the outcome, but at least I'll be able to tell myself that I did my part.

IAmEveryone 5y ago
It's terribly hard to actually falsify the vote counts across thousands of polling places. In theory, someone observing the process, as should be legal everywhere, will notice the irregularities. It's not impossible, obviously–especially if you have full control of at least anyone important. But plausible deniability suffers rather fast, and that's a valuable assets at the Putin-level of dic(tator|k)ishness.
- grishka 5y ago
  Oh they interfere with observers a lot. It's a battle, really. Sometimes, in some far-flung region, an election will end up being fair. Then they still find a way to ultimately "fix" the outcome — see what happened in Khabarovsk with everyone's favorite mayor Sergey Furgal. They found a court case on him from very long ago, arrested him, flew him to Moscow, then Putin dismissed him from mayorship "for loss of trust". Yeah sure, people elected him and had no problems with him, but it's lack of Putin's trust that caused him to lose his office against his and people's will.
- gunapologist99 5y ago
  Usually only a few polling places actually determine an election. Based on historical vote data, you'd only flip votes in the few locations where it actually matters; for example, a few counties in a few swing states, or anywhere where the votes can be cured or recounted without being observed. It's strange that people really don't realize how easy it is to cheat; just a little bit of leverage in the right place can tip an election.

exabrial 5y ago

Well obviously the solution is to legally change you name to "Real Boris Vishnevskys"

Grustaf 5y ago
Or add a blue check emoji to his name.

trhway 5y ago

Imagine what they would do with a good AI. Anyway, a recent anekdot from Russian democracy illustrating why the ruling power is so obstructing oppositional candidates. A mayor of small town to make elections legally democratic, ie to have at least 2 candidates while of course not allowing any real oppositional candidates, ran his office janitor woman against himself. The people voted for the janitor.

ithkuil 5y ago

Local elections for mayor here: Arianna Buti vs Monia Buti. The town name is also Buti...

ChicagoDave 5y ago

I live in US IL-14. This would be like me changing my name to Lorne Underwood and running as a Republican.

mig39 5y ago

The Rhinoceros Party did this in Canada, in the 80s. They found a guy named "John Turner" to run against the prime minister of the same name, in the same riding. Funny stuff! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhinoceros_Party https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhinoceros_Party

pvaldes 5y ago

In Spain not much years ago happened a slightly different but related trick. A party changed late their logo in the ballots to a circle. Casually their rivals from the opposite ideology had adopted before a thin circle as a logo in the voting sheets (shared by all parties). The second circle was more thick (and more visible) than the other and had different letters inside. Clearly different for people with a good sight, maybe not so much for elders. I bet that this didn't helped at the hour of counting the ballots and I wouldn't be surprised to know that a few votes were assigned wrongly that night at the slighest opportunity.

hamilyon2 5y ago

Oh, two nearly identical doppelgangers, with matching appearance, age and name? I wouldn't hesitate to follow great old russian tradition and take a loan. A few million rubles in cash here and there from those shady and unscrupulous lenders, then miss a payment or two and see what happens! A completely legal way to remind those people that Russia isn't European country yet. Nor Saint Petersburg is Miami.

Grustaf 5y ago
> Nor Saint Petersburg is Miami True enough. Saint Petersburg has a fantastic history, brought us some of the most important writers in history and is full of theatres, palaces and one of the best museums in the world. It's also very beautiful.

Grustaf 5y ago

In Sweden they do the opposite, they have half a dozen parties with almost identical politics. Also very effective.

abecedarius 5y ago

Yet another point for approval voting ( / score voting). You'd have to confuse people into not just picking the decoy but also dropping the original.

sfblah 5y ago

Interestingly, the three candidates do have different patronymics. So, at least in principle it should be possible to disambiguate them.

WhompingWindows 5y ago

This example is extremely egregious - can anyone fact check on those identical names and very similar pictures? Other commenters have posted American examples as well, which while blatant are not nearly as egregious as the Russian example. Just goes to show, true democracy is hard to enact.

chmod600 5y ago

If Bobby Tables gets involved, this will get worse before it gets better: https://m.xkcd.com/327/ https://m.xkcd.com/327/

ummwhat 5y ago

I know arrows theorem says something about spoiler candidates and irrelevant identical alternatives, but I didn't think it manifested quite like this.

6510 5y ago

Name changes should be refused or rolled back when the request ever so slightly smells like identity theft.