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Organic and permaculture are very different things. Studies have shown organic farms use more fertilizer than non-organic to produce the same yield.

eurasiantiger 5y ago
These results may be skewed by use of non-GMO/GMO crops, which tend to correlate with organic/non-organic farming. Organic farming methods can be used with GMO crops, however. Important note: not all GMO is done to vendor lock farmers, most of it is actually beneficial to food quality and availability
- simiones 5y ago
  I think studies in the EU, which bans GMOs but does plenty of non-organic farming, should address this. However, I don't know of any to cite, or what the results may be.
- pueblito 5y ago
  > Important note: not all GMO is done to vendor lock farmers, most of it is actually beneficial to food quality and availability I am a farmer, that is absolutely not true. All GMO crops are made to be more profitable to the farmer, with the goals of increased bulk yields, longer shelf stability and decreased water usage. Something like 95% of all corn grown in America isn’t even for human consumption, they’re certainly not selecting for food quality and availability.
  - eurasiantiger 5y ago
    But are they vendor locking you like Monsanto is?
    - bluGill 5y ago
      Farmers can switch vendors if they want to. Even if they have a contract, it isn't for more than a few years. Monsanto is used because those farmers have done the math and they get the most profit working with Monsanto. Last I checked Monsanto was about a third of the seed market, the competitors total to more market share. (since I last checked Monsanto was bought out, and no longer exists)
ceejayoz 5y ago
Can you define "more" here? Manure weighs more than than an equivalent bag of fertilizer, sure. Is that bad, though?
- pcmaffey 5y ago
  Also, how far did that manure travel vs fertilizer? etc etc
- Spooky23 5y ago
  Given any scenario for this type of environmental discussion, someone will find a problem with it. How far was the manure transported? How much CO2 did the cow burp? How much corn was trucked in to feed the cow? There’s also the matter of organic fertilizers working differently in some scenarios. Blood meal releases nitrogen more slowly than ammonium nitrate, for example. When you cross pseudo-religious beliefs you get in trouble as well — many of the organic fertilizers are animal byproducts (blood, feathers, eggshells, urine). So what wins for a vegan? Vegetables made with chemical fertilizers, or vegetables made with burnt eggshells and feathers?
noasaservice 5y ago
Citation please?

eurasiantiger 5y ago

These results may be skewed by use of non-GMO/GMO crops, which tend to correlate with organic/non-organic farming. Organic farming methods can be used with GMO crops, however. Important note: not all GMO is done to vendor lock farmers, most of it is actually beneficial to food quality and availability

simiones 5y ago
I think studies in the EU, which bans GMOs but does plenty of non-organic farming, should address this. However, I don't know of any to cite, or what the results may be.
pueblito 5y ago
> Important note: not all GMO is done to vendor lock farmers, most of it is actually beneficial to food quality and availability I am a farmer, that is absolutely not true. All GMO crops are made to be more profitable to the farmer, with the goals of increased bulk yields, longer shelf stability and decreased water usage. Something like 95% of all corn grown in America isn’t even for human consumption, they’re certainly not selecting for food quality and availability.
- eurasiantiger 5y ago
  But are they vendor locking you like Monsanto is?
  - bluGill 5y ago
    Farmers can switch vendors if they want to. Even if they have a contract, it isn't for more than a few years. Monsanto is used because those farmers have done the math and they get the most profit working with Monsanto. Last I checked Monsanto was about a third of the seed market, the competitors total to more market share. (since I last checked Monsanto was bought out, and no longer exists)

ceejayoz 5y ago

Can you define "more" here? Manure weighs more than than an equivalent bag of fertilizer, sure. Is that bad, though?

pcmaffey 5y ago
Also, how far did that manure travel vs fertilizer? etc etc
Spooky23 5y ago
Given any scenario for this type of environmental discussion, someone will find a problem with it. How far was the manure transported? How much CO2 did the cow burp? How much corn was trucked in to feed the cow? There’s also the matter of organic fertilizers working differently in some scenarios. Blood meal releases nitrogen more slowly than ammonium nitrate, for example. When you cross pseudo-religious beliefs you get in trouble as well — many of the organic fertilizers are animal byproducts (blood, feathers, eggshells, urine). So what wins for a vegan? Vegetables made with chemical fertilizers, or vegetables made with burnt eggshells and feathers?

noasaservice 5y ago

Citation please?