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> I think there is a market for datacenters in open seas. Sealand's HavenCo tried it back in the 2000s. As it turned out, it didn't work well. https://en.wiki

> I think there is a market for datacenters in open seas. Sealand's HavenCo tried it back in the 2000s. As it turned out, it didn't work well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HavenCo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HavenCo See: Death of a data haven: cypherpunks, WikiLeaks, and the world’s smallest nation https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/03/sealand-and-havenco/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/03/sealand-and-have...

vmception 5y ago
one company in the cloud sector failed 20 years ago, before people were even using the word cloud in this context
nvarsj 5y ago
I find Sealand fascinating. Imagine founding an off-grid location as a data haven, and it got popular. What would happen? I can see covert operations from foreign governments happening for example, driven by copyright lobbyists. Would they then need to hire security forces or train their own armed forces? Would it eventually join global political organizations to influence and protect its position? It gets really interesting to think about. There's no doubt in my mind there would be huge demand for such a thing. People hate that the government can spy on anything you do. The chilling effect is exhausting.
- underseacables 5y ago
  Let us suppose for a moment that you could put a ship out in the sea, using solar panels and wind power, and satellites, you could provide a service. It might not be a service that’s always available, or all that fast, but it is technically feasible.
  - wasmitnetzen 5y ago
    A ship is way too easily intercepted by any country with a navy. And your flag bearing country probably won't care, if you even have one. You need to go to space!
    - underseacables 5y ago
      But it is technically feasible! I hear your point, but even in space, you are not safe. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Chinese_anti-satellite_missile_test https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Chinese_anti-satellite_...
- segfaultbuserr 5y ago
  Another major challenge is communication. Even when you have a data haven, how do you plug into the Internet backbone? How do you get Tbps bandwidth to serve the world? The Cypherpunks did some related research in the 90s, nearly all communication lines are controlled by the major ISP or the state, and they are extremely expensive to build. > The dot-com crash not only cut the bottom out from colocation pricing, but also took out HavenCo's fiber-optic link when the company providing it went bankrupt. That left the entire operation with a pokey 128 Kbps satellite link, which staggered badly under denial-of-service attacks. In Neal Stephenson's novel Cryptonomicon, the data haven is a main theme in its plot.
- OJFord 5y ago
  I think the Republic of Rose Island is more interesting in that respect. Sealand is in British waters, and not recognised by HMG or any other state. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Rose_Island https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Rose_Island https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Sealand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Sealand
  - joshuaissac 5y ago
    According to that article, Rose Island was also in Italian territorial waters, and was invaded and destroyed by the Italian navy.
    - OJFord 5y ago
      It was just outside, that was the point, but yes destroyed and the size of internationally recognised territorial waters was expanded to prevent it happening again - so yes, it was inside today's Italian territorial waters. (Note the info box thing says 'preceded by: international waters', not Italian.)
- oauea 5y ago
  US would threaten to attack unless they comply unless there's a other nation backing them. In which case they'd be beholden to them.

vmception 5y ago

one company in the cloud sector failed 20 years ago, before people were even using the word cloud in this context

nvarsj 5y ago

I find Sealand fascinating. Imagine founding an off-grid location as a data haven, and it got popular. What would happen? I can see covert operations from foreign governments happening for example, driven by copyright lobbyists. Would they then need to hire security forces or train their own armed forces? Would it eventually join global political organizations to influence and protect its position? It gets really interesting to think about. There's no doubt in my mind there would be huge demand for such a thing. People hate that the government can spy on anything you do. The chilling effect is exhausting.

underseacables 5y ago
Let us suppose for a moment that you could put a ship out in the sea, using solar panels and wind power, and satellites, you could provide a service. It might not be a service that’s always available, or all that fast, but it is technically feasible.
- wasmitnetzen 5y ago
  A ship is way too easily intercepted by any country with a navy. And your flag bearing country probably won't care, if you even have one. You need to go to space!
  - underseacables 5y ago
    But it is technically feasible! I hear your point, but even in space, you are not safe. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Chinese_anti-satellite_missile_test https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Chinese_anti-satellite_...
segfaultbuserr 5y ago
Another major challenge is communication. Even when you have a data haven, how do you plug into the Internet backbone? How do you get Tbps bandwidth to serve the world? The Cypherpunks did some related research in the 90s, nearly all communication lines are controlled by the major ISP or the state, and they are extremely expensive to build. > The dot-com crash not only cut the bottom out from colocation pricing, but also took out HavenCo's fiber-optic link when the company providing it went bankrupt. That left the entire operation with a pokey 128 Kbps satellite link, which staggered badly under denial-of-service attacks. In Neal Stephenson's novel Cryptonomicon, the data haven is a main theme in its plot.
OJFord 5y ago
I think the Republic of Rose Island is more interesting in that respect. Sealand is in British waters, and not recognised by HMG or any other state. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Rose_Island https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Rose_Island https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Sealand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Sealand
- joshuaissac 5y ago
  According to that article, Rose Island was also in Italian territorial waters, and was invaded and destroyed by the Italian navy.
  - OJFord 5y ago
    It was just outside, that was the point, but yes destroyed and the size of internationally recognised territorial waters was expanded to prevent it happening again - so yes, it was inside today's Italian territorial waters. (Note the info box thing says 'preceded by: international waters', not Italian.)
oauea 5y ago
US would threaten to attack unless they comply unless there's a other nation backing them. In which case they'd be beholden to them.