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Can someone explain to me what happened to Vine? I feel like it beat TikTok to the punch by ~8 years before it was bought and then unceremoniously killed by Twi

by ng12 5y ago

Can someone explain to me what happened to Vine? I feel like it beat TikTok to the punch by ~8 years before it was bought and then unceremoniously killed by Twitter. Was that the first example of US innovation being suffocated by the big tech oligopoly?

rockinghigh 5y ago
Vine started in 2013 and uploads were shut down in 2016; the same year TikTok launched.
- barbecue_sauce 5y ago
  I think they're asking why.
908B64B197 5y ago
I don't think Twitter could afford to lose money with Vines for very long. The CCP can afford to lose money with TikTok for a long time. Straight from the propaganda budget really.
- starik36 5y ago
  I have yet to see a single CCP propaganda video on TikTok. What exactly are you seeing?
  - im-poor 5y ago
    CCP propaganda won’t be a red flying with people chanting “China is great!” It will be something like “masks aren’t effective” to increase the impact of COVID on America.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - saila 5y ago
      All the videos I see on TikTok regarding COVID are all pro-mask/pro-vax/pro-science. I can see how others will be led down a different path though. Not sure it's intentional so much as showing people what they want to see, and I don't see how it's any different than, say, YouTube where one can also go down a rabbit hole and get stuck there.
      - im-poor 5y ago
        The point is that these rabbits holes are dangerous for people, as you mention. TikTok is controlled by the CCP, meaning they control the rabbit holes. They may not be doing anything now, but it’s a huge risk to the American society.
    - pphysch 5y ago
      And yet if you walk across the aisle, you will hear people saying the opposite: CCP propaganda is something like "vaccines are effective" to increase the microchip coverage, or whatever.
      - im-poor 5y ago
        Isn't that what I said? People have vaccine hesitancy because of propaganda from other countries undermining confidence in the government.
  - evanmoran 5y ago
    They aren’t showing propaganda videos, they are filtering out what makes them look bad and emphasizing what makes them look good. Update: here’s a reference to leaked documents to this effect: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/technology/2019/sep/25/revealed-how-tiktok-censors-videos-that-do-not-please-beijing https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/technology/...
    - hubadu 5y ago
      Just like Youtube scrapped from its search results the full version of that July presidential town hall video because it was not looking so good.
    - starik36 5y ago
      Ah ok. That makes lots of sense.
- whoevercares 5y ago
  Can afford to lose money for a long time — IIRC this is called “long term planning” …
sluggosaurus 5y ago
Mismanagement by @Jack.
- donio 5y ago
  Most of the decline happened under Costolo thoguh. Dorsey finished the job.
m348e912 5y ago
Vine's an example of the beginning of great idea that wasn't taken to its full potential. There are significant key differences between vine and tiktok. There are three that come to mind. Tiktok expanded allowed uploaded video duration up to 3 minutes. The For You Page algorithm (which drives the content you see in the feed) is scarily impressive in how it can match the viewer with content they would most want to see. Lastly, and probably most importantly (in my opinion) Tiktok fosters a home for a vast number of entertaining and informative content creators that give them an edge. Vine mostly went for entertainment in quick six second bursts.
- nyolfen 5y ago
  you're leaving out algorithmic discovery and promotion, widely considered tiktok's secret sauce
- fragmede 5y ago
  TikTok (or at least my experience with it) is largely focused on 15-second clips, so I'm not sure duration differences are the significant ones. It seems the algorithm's ability to surface engaging content on a per-user basis is more important than anything else.
- ng12 5y ago
  > Tiktok fosters a home for a vast number of entertaining and informative content creators that give them an edge Vine did this too which is a big part of why it's so surprising to me: Vine didn't just have the tech but they had the community. You can still find Vine compilations on YouTube with millions of views that capture the vibrant set of content creators that Vine once had. Honestly the only real difference between Vine and TikTok in my mind is that Vine was more focused on comedy while TikTok is more focused on music. Otherwise the two services were pretty much identical.
  - nightpool 5y ago
    TikTok had a much better creator reimbursement platform and partnerships built in from the start, and benefited a lot from the early work Twitch and YouTube did setting the tone here, as well as the growth of "influencer culture" leading to further brand and advertising involvement in the space.
aqrre 5y ago
> Was that the first example of US innovation being suffocated by the big tech oligopoly? there's countless examples
zz865 5y ago
Does TikTok have any ads? I'm not sure how they can survive.
- bamboozled 5y ago
  It's funded by the party comrade. No, they have in-app purchases?
- Sparkle-san 5y ago
  Yes. From my experience, they gradually phased them in for me as I started using it. Now, more often than not, the first video is an ad.
- fragmede 5y ago
  There's ads. Upon opening the app, I get one to apply to work at Chick-fil-A. After scrolling a number of videos, I got an for Givingli. No idea how much/little that pays the bandwidth bills, but the ads themselves are largely disguised as content - ads look just like any other content in the app. It does say sponsored while showing an ad, but it's subtle.
- nl 5y ago
  Yes TikTok has ads AND the ad rates are pretty high (I worked in marketing tech for a while and saw the rate card and the huge amount companies spend there)
094459 5y ago
Combination of easy to use editing tools and effects to emphasise creativity together with the sound tracks. It’s often missed but the soundtracks were (still) are a big reason for it’s traction. It’s become the new mtv
jimbob45 5y ago
Twitter is allergic to making good business decisions. Even later on, they never attempted to resurrect Vine after TikTok showed the way and FB followed suit with Instagram Reels.
baby 5y ago
None of the explanations here are satisfying. I want to hear from someone who actually worked on Vine at the time.
- ffhhj 5y ago
  Whoever worked at Vine didn't see its demise approaching.
booleandilemma 5y ago
Vine was funny (really funny) but Tiktok shows you what you want to see, and that’s more powerful. It’s very effective and scarily addictive in a way Vine wasn’t.
raverbashing 5y ago
They fumbled the usability of the app. Badly.
tayo42 5y ago
I don't get why people keep saying vine should have been popular. Myspace beat facebook and look which survived. Myspace was never going to be like facebook. Why should vine have been as big as tiktok just because it was first? Theres plenty of examples of being first not being the winner.
- ng12 5y ago
  Vine was shut down prior to TikTok's launch. Vine had struck gold and was discarded, then foreign copycats (TikTok and Musical.ly) filled the void. It's one thing for TikTok to beat Vine, another for Vine/Twitter to not even try. At the very least it's an interesting parable of how short-sighted "innovative" big tech companies can be.
nl 5y ago
> unceremoniously killed by Twitter Twitter wouldn't know a good product idea or how to find one if it hit them in the face. They got lucky with the original Twitter product, but the biggest change since it has launched is increasing tweet length from 140 to 280 characters. Compare that to Facebook who - for all their faults - know how to iterate on product ideas and leverage their platform to build new markets.
AndrewKemendo 5y ago
I think the biggest difference is that the number of mobile-app users worldwide is double that from 2016, when Twitter announced they were shutting vine down. When Vine started in 2012 there were only ~1B smartphone users.
- boibombeiro 5y ago
  The average data bandwidth also increased.
sergiotapia 5y ago
Tiktok is much better as it allows people to infinitely remix existing content. Like a video with a funny sound? With one tap you can make your own and get that "SEO" juice from using that popular sound.
LordAtlas 5y ago
The Twitter Touch: the opposite of the Midas Touch. Everything they touch turns to shit.

by ng12 5y ago

rockinghigh 5y ago

Vine started in 2013 and uploads were shut down in 2016; the same year TikTok launched.

barbecue_sauce 5y ago
I think they're asking why.

908B64B197 5y ago

I don't think Twitter could afford to lose money with Vines for very long. The CCP can afford to lose money with TikTok for a long time. Straight from the propaganda budget really.

starik36 5y ago
I have yet to see a single CCP propaganda video on TikTok. What exactly are you seeing?
- im-poor 5y ago
  CCP propaganda won’t be a red flying with people chanting “China is great!” It will be something like “masks aren’t effective” to increase the impact of COVID on America.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - saila 5y ago
    All the videos I see on TikTok regarding COVID are all pro-mask/pro-vax/pro-science. I can see how others will be led down a different path though. Not sure it's intentional so much as showing people what they want to see, and I don't see how it's any different than, say, YouTube where one can also go down a rabbit hole and get stuck there.
    - im-poor 5y ago
      The point is that these rabbits holes are dangerous for people, as you mention. TikTok is controlled by the CCP, meaning they control the rabbit holes. They may not be doing anything now, but it’s a huge risk to the American society.
  - pphysch 5y ago
    And yet if you walk across the aisle, you will hear people saying the opposite: CCP propaganda is something like "vaccines are effective" to increase the microchip coverage, or whatever.
    - im-poor 5y ago
      Isn't that what I said? People have vaccine hesitancy because of propaganda from other countries undermining confidence in the government.
- evanmoran 5y ago
  They aren’t showing propaganda videos, they are filtering out what makes them look bad and emphasizing what makes them look good. Update: here’s a reference to leaked documents to this effect: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/technology/2019/sep/25/revealed-how-tiktok-censors-videos-that-do-not-please-beijing https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/technology/...
  - hubadu 5y ago
    Just like Youtube scrapped from its search results the full version of that July presidential town hall video because it was not looking so good.
  - starik36 5y ago
    Ah ok. That makes lots of sense.
whoevercares 5y ago
Can afford to lose money for a long time — IIRC this is called “long term planning” …

sluggosaurus 5y ago

Mismanagement by @Jack.

donio 5y ago
Most of the decline happened under Costolo thoguh. Dorsey finished the job.

m348e912 5y ago

Vine's an example of the beginning of great idea that wasn't taken to its full potential. There are significant key differences between vine and tiktok. There are three that come to mind. Tiktok expanded allowed uploaded video duration up to 3 minutes. The For You Page algorithm (which drives the content you see in the feed) is scarily impressive in how it can match the viewer with content they would most want to see. Lastly, and probably most importantly (in my opinion) Tiktok fosters a home for a vast number of entertaining and informative content creators that give them an edge. Vine mostly went for entertainment in quick six second bursts.

nyolfen 5y ago
you're leaving out algorithmic discovery and promotion, widely considered tiktok's secret sauce
fragmede 5y ago
TikTok (or at least my experience with it) is largely focused on 15-second clips, so I'm not sure duration differences are the significant ones. It seems the algorithm's ability to surface engaging content on a per-user basis is more important than anything else.
ng12 5y ago
> Tiktok fosters a home for a vast number of entertaining and informative content creators that give them an edge Vine did this too which is a big part of why it's so surprising to me: Vine didn't just have the tech but they had the community. You can still find Vine compilations on YouTube with millions of views that capture the vibrant set of content creators that Vine once had. Honestly the only real difference between Vine and TikTok in my mind is that Vine was more focused on comedy while TikTok is more focused on music. Otherwise the two services were pretty much identical.
- nightpool 5y ago
  TikTok had a much better creator reimbursement platform and partnerships built in from the start, and benefited a lot from the early work Twitch and YouTube did setting the tone here, as well as the growth of "influencer culture" leading to further brand and advertising involvement in the space.

aqrre 5y ago

> Was that the first example of US innovation being suffocated by the big tech oligopoly? there's countless examples

zz865 5y ago

Does TikTok have any ads? I'm not sure how they can survive.

bamboozled 5y ago
It's funded by the party comrade. No, they have in-app purchases?
Sparkle-san 5y ago
Yes. From my experience, they gradually phased them in for me as I started using it. Now, more often than not, the first video is an ad.
fragmede 5y ago
There's ads. Upon opening the app, I get one to apply to work at Chick-fil-A. After scrolling a number of videos, I got an for Givingli. No idea how much/little that pays the bandwidth bills, but the ads themselves are largely disguised as content - ads look just like any other content in the app. It does say sponsored while showing an ad, but it's subtle.
nl 5y ago
Yes TikTok has ads AND the ad rates are pretty high (I worked in marketing tech for a while and saw the rate card and the huge amount companies spend there)

094459 5y ago

Combination of easy to use editing tools and effects to emphasise creativity together with the sound tracks. It’s often missed but the soundtracks were (still) are a big reason for it’s traction. It’s become the new mtv

jimbob45 5y ago

Twitter is allergic to making good business decisions. Even later on, they never attempted to resurrect Vine after TikTok showed the way and FB followed suit with Instagram Reels.

baby 5y ago

None of the explanations here are satisfying. I want to hear from someone who actually worked on Vine at the time.

ffhhj 5y ago
Whoever worked at Vine didn't see its demise approaching.

booleandilemma 5y ago

Vine was funny (really funny) but Tiktok shows you what you want to see, and that’s more powerful. It’s very effective and scarily addictive in a way Vine wasn’t.

raverbashing 5y ago

They fumbled the usability of the app. Badly.

tayo42 5y ago

I don't get why people keep saying vine should have been popular. Myspace beat facebook and look which survived. Myspace was never going to be like facebook. Why should vine have been as big as tiktok just because it was first? Theres plenty of examples of being first not being the winner.

ng12 5y ago
Vine was shut down prior to TikTok's launch. Vine had struck gold and was discarded, then foreign copycats (TikTok and Musical.ly) filled the void. It's one thing for TikTok to beat Vine, another for Vine/Twitter to not even try. At the very least it's an interesting parable of how short-sighted "innovative" big tech companies can be.

nl 5y ago

> unceremoniously killed by Twitter Twitter wouldn't know a good product idea or how to find one if it hit them in the face. They got lucky with the original Twitter product, but the biggest change since it has launched is increasing tweet length from 140 to 280 characters. Compare that to Facebook who - for all their faults - know how to iterate on product ideas and leverage their platform to build new markets.

AndrewKemendo 5y ago

I think the biggest difference is that the number of mobile-app users worldwide is double that from 2016, when Twitter announced they were shutting vine down. When Vine started in 2012 there were only ~1B smartphone users.

boibombeiro 5y ago
The average data bandwidth also increased.

sergiotapia 5y ago

Tiktok is much better as it allows people to infinitely remix existing content. Like a video with a funny sound? With one tap you can make your own and get that "SEO" juice from using that popular sound.

LordAtlas 5y ago

The Twitter Touch: the opposite of the Midas Touch. Everything they touch turns to shit.