5 ms·

In general I fully agree with the author but he goes too far here: > There are no useful cryptocurrencies today, and there will not be any at any time in the n

by JackFr 5y ago

In general I fully agree with the author but he goes too far here: > There are no useful cryptocurrencies today, and there will not be any at any time in the near future. Clearly criminal enterprises have made good use of cryptocurrency in the past few years.

arcticbull 5y ago
The Mafia is a big fan of Bitcoin and Monero. [1] [1] https://protos.com/mafia-italy-bitcoin-monero-paying-colombian-cartels-cocaine/ https://protos.com/mafia-italy-bitcoin-monero-paying-colombi...
- DamnYuppie 5y ago
  The Mafia was even bigger fans of organized labor, government contacts, real estate, construction, and cash. The only argument less persuasive and over used than that one is “think of the children!”
  - arcticbull 5y ago
    Technology designed to actively circumvent the progress we've made in curtailing illicit use is in my opinion a bad thing. This is just wataboutism. Let's stick to one topic at a time huh?
    - matheusmoreira 5y ago
      You call total surveillance progress? Why should the government have automatic access to everyone's financial data?
      - arcticbull 5y ago
        Well, Bitcoin supports total surveillance by default, so I do push back that crypto has solved that problem. Really only Cash and Monero avoid this yeah? The government should have access to everyone's financial data when presenting a warrant. If the current system doesn't work that way, we should reform the system. Not throw out a useful tool for enforcement of law.
        matheusmoreira 5y ago
        > Bitcoin supports total surveillance by default, so I do push back that crypto has solved that problem. I agree with you. Bitcoin and most other coins have this flaw and it's a problem. > Really only Cash and Monero avoid this yeah? Yes. Right now Monero is closest to the original cryptocurrency dream. It's everything bitcoin should have been. It's a shame that bitcoin is still king. > The government should have access to everyone's financial data when presenting a warrant. Warrants are for specific persons, not everyone. Yet the government essentially has full access to everyone's banking records. They're still not satisfied, they keep demanding more. > Not throw out a useful tool for enforcement of law. They can't be trusted with these powers. If they want to catch criminals, they should have to go out there and do real police work instead of imposing their abusive surveillance on everyone.
        arcticbull 5y ago
        > They can't be trusted with these powers. If they want to catch criminals, they should have to go out there and do real police work instead of imposing their abusive surveillance on everyone. Real police work like collecting records for transactions to piece together how a crime happened?
        matheusmoreira 5y ago
        Yes. They should have to do it in person, not by pressing some button on a computer. It should be hard.
        arcticbull 5y ago
        Why isn't the future digital for the police? You're creating arbitrary obstacles for no reason. Artifically handicapping the police and preventing them from doing their jobs without really explaining your basis for drawing the line there.
        matheusmoreira 5y ago
    - jazzyjackson 5y ago
      How is the government going to get anything done if they're not allowed to pay off the mafia? Or if you prefer, how is the mafia supposed to get anything done is they can't pay off the politicians?
- matheusmoreira 5y ago
  That's interesting. Contrary to most claims, there are people right now who are actually getting paid in crypto. This will be an excellent test for Monero's privacy features.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
chizhik-pyzhik 5y ago
Ethereum has utility for creating financial derivatives. Have you heard of "defi"? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decentralized_finance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decentralized_finance
- arcticbull 5y ago
  Were derivatives not possible before? Certainly transaction fees in traditional finance aren't $200-$1000 when you're buying a futures contract. I think it's like $3.
  - chizhik-pyzhik 5y ago
    Sure, but it's not trivial to create derivatives in the current system. You'll need to work closely with a financial institution that has the resources and relationships in place to seek regulatory approval. This pretty much restricts the financial space to college-educated people in the first world with wealth and connections.
    - arcticbull 5y ago
      Right, that's a good thing. Otherwise you get the chimera monster Binance who actively trades against its customers via its insurance fund. There is no world in which they're not trading against their customers to liquidate their positions. You also have flashbots on DeFi platforms - is that still a thing?
      - chizhik-pyzhik 5y ago
        I agree Binance trading against customers is bad. But that's not decentralized finance, that's just a centralized entity using a system it owns. The idea behind DeFi is to power the financial system using auditable, open code, and to be able to switch between these systems with little friction. Flashbots (more generally MEV, miner extractable value) are an ongoing research problem, I'm not familiar with recent progress there.

by JackFr 5y ago

arcticbull 5y ago

The Mafia is a big fan of Bitcoin and Monero. [1] [1] https://protos.com/mafia-italy-bitcoin-monero-paying-colombian-cartels-cocaine/ https://protos.com/mafia-italy-bitcoin-monero-paying-colombi...

DamnYuppie 5y ago
The Mafia was even bigger fans of organized labor, government contacts, real estate, construction, and cash. The only argument less persuasive and over used than that one is “think of the children!”
- arcticbull 5y ago
  Technology designed to actively circumvent the progress we've made in curtailing illicit use is in my opinion a bad thing. This is just wataboutism. Let's stick to one topic at a time huh?
  - matheusmoreira 5y ago
    You call total surveillance progress? Why should the government have automatic access to everyone's financial data?
    - arcticbull 5y ago
      Well, Bitcoin supports total surveillance by default, so I do push back that crypto has solved that problem. Really only Cash and Monero avoid this yeah? The government should have access to everyone's financial data when presenting a warrant. If the current system doesn't work that way, we should reform the system. Not throw out a useful tool for enforcement of law.
      - matheusmoreira 5y ago
        > Bitcoin supports total surveillance by default, so I do push back that crypto has solved that problem. I agree with you. Bitcoin and most other coins have this flaw and it's a problem. > Really only Cash and Monero avoid this yeah? Yes. Right now Monero is closest to the original cryptocurrency dream. It's everything bitcoin should have been. It's a shame that bitcoin is still king. > The government should have access to everyone's financial data when presenting a warrant. Warrants are for specific persons, not everyone. Yet the government essentially has full access to everyone's banking records. They're still not satisfied, they keep demanding more. > Not throw out a useful tool for enforcement of law. They can't be trusted with these powers. If they want to catch criminals, they should have to go out there and do real police work instead of imposing their abusive surveillance on everyone.
        arcticbull 5y ago
        > They can't be trusted with these powers. If they want to catch criminals, they should have to go out there and do real police work instead of imposing their abusive surveillance on everyone. Real police work like collecting records for transactions to piece together how a crime happened?
        matheusmoreira 5y ago
        Yes. They should have to do it in person, not by pressing some button on a computer. It should be hard.
        arcticbull 5y ago
        Why isn't the future digital for the police? You're creating arbitrary obstacles for no reason. Artifically handicapping the police and preventing them from doing their jobs without really explaining your basis for drawing the line there.
        matheusmoreira 5y ago
  - jazzyjackson 5y ago
    How is the government going to get anything done if they're not allowed to pay off the mafia? Or if you prefer, how is the mafia supposed to get anything done is they can't pay off the politicians?
matheusmoreira 5y ago
That's interesting. Contrary to most claims, there are people right now who are actually getting paid in crypto. This will be an excellent test for Monero's privacy features.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

chizhik-pyzhik 5y ago

Ethereum has utility for creating financial derivatives. Have you heard of "defi"? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decentralized_finance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decentralized_finance

arcticbull 5y ago
Were derivatives not possible before? Certainly transaction fees in traditional finance aren't $200-$1000 when you're buying a futures contract. I think it's like $3.
- chizhik-pyzhik 5y ago
  Sure, but it's not trivial to create derivatives in the current system. You'll need to work closely with a financial institution that has the resources and relationships in place to seek regulatory approval. This pretty much restricts the financial space to college-educated people in the first world with wealth and connections.
  - arcticbull 5y ago
    Right, that's a good thing. Otherwise you get the chimera monster Binance who actively trades against its customers via its insurance fund. There is no world in which they're not trading against their customers to liquidate their positions. You also have flashbots on DeFi platforms - is that still a thing?
    - chizhik-pyzhik 5y ago
      I agree Binance trading against customers is bad. But that's not decentralized finance, that's just a centralized entity using a system it owns. The idea behind DeFi is to power the financial system using auditable, open code, and to be able to switch between these systems with little friction. Flashbots (more generally MEV, miner extractable value) are an ongoing research problem, I'm not familiar with recent progress there.