4 ms·

Getting into debt to get a piece of paper that only lets you begin to enter the job market after gathering enough credentials by either working for free or talk

Getting into debt to get a piece of paper that only lets you begin to enter the job market after gathering enough credentials by either working for free or talking to others and hopefully trying your luck even though there are 100s for a single internship... College is a scam unless you're paying close attention and don't get into debt in the first place. Those who manage to jump through all of the hoops don't realize that there is a secondary scam waiting for them: working for a wage without significant stock options while someone makes millions sitting around doing nothing off of their effort. We've had movies made about this for many years and still it's so strange how it's not acknowledged. Also: who is friend or foe? The lines have blurred significantly, which is a driving force in WANTING to change things in the first place. There's even loss of solidarity between family members, next generations. There's no incentive to try. If I were the same age as these young men, I wouldn't bother either.

PaulHoule 5y ago
The proliferation of this attitude... https://www.amazon.com/Aint-No-making-2nd-Second/dp/B002NAUW3A https://www.amazon.com/Aint-No-making-2nd-Second/dp/B002NAUW...
- toomuchtodo 5y ago
  https://openlibrary.org/books/OL1271149M/Ain%27t_no_makin%27_it https://openlibrary.org/books/OL1271149M/Ain%27t_no_makin%27...
  - PaulHoule 5y ago
    To spoil a little, this book considers a group of low-income whites and a group of low-income blacks. As teenagers the whites have a pessimistic attitude about success but the blacks are more optimistic. Barriers to the success of both groups are looming. The first edition of the book stops there: one is left with the feeling that the plight of the two groups is not that different (e.g. "systemic racism" is a real thing but doesn't seem salient when you are know "white people with black problems") Somehow, however, the blacks believe that "they can overcome". In a follow-up study a decade later both groups are doing poorly, but the blacks in particular have had their hopes dashed by poverty, problems with the law, problems with work, etc.
walsand21 5y ago
Can I ask what movies you have in mind?
atraac 5y ago
> Those who manage to jump through all of the hoops don't realize that there is a secondary scam waiting for them: working for a wage without significant stock options while someone makes millions sitting around doing nothing off of their effort. I know this is the thing in US and shouldn't surprise me but I'm based in central Europe and honestly the thought of this still feels so abstract to me. I'd love to have an option of choosing jobs that offer stock options.
- durnygbur 5y ago
  Europe is behind of America in this regards, Europeans are submissive, timid, and desperate. Want to know where are your stock options? Travel south to the Mediterranean and watch - mansions, palaces, yachts, butiques, luxurious hotels, hostesses and models, German limousines and supercars. There they are.
  - heurisko 5y ago
    I'm a Northern European and just buy stock on the market. My union is pretty strong, and I enjoy healthcare and more than two weeks holiday I hear is typical in the states. It's not altogether a good idea to have a lot invested in the company you work for, as if they go under, your stock is also not worth so much, and you might lose your income at the same time too.
  - dang 5y ago
    Please don't take HN threads into nationalistic flamewar. It's a particularly avoidable kind of hell and we definitely want to avoid it on this site. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: we've unfortunately had to ask you this kind of thing repeatedly already: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27224106 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27224106 (May 2021) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26773557 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26773557 (April 2021) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20954524 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20954524 (Sept 2019) If you do it again we will ban you, so no more of this, please.
bob1029 5y ago
Stock options and other scalable forms of compensation are a huge deal for our organization now. The funny thing is we also don't give a shit about credentials anymore. We just want work ethic followed loosely by experience. Willingness to endure difficult things and learn is all we are really going for in a new hire these days. What is amazing to me is all of the business leaders who still insist on upholding these arbitrary gatekeepers. You are leaving a ton of talent on the table. I think the answer for many is to focus harder on the business value equation and to just let the people be free. Running a business like a power fantasy is not going to get you there. The more you try to control people the harder it will be to make money with them in the long term.
iejnfw 5y ago
>working for a wage without significant stock options while someone makes millions sitting around doing nothing off of their effort This seems to characterise almost every single place I have worked for or interviewed at in different ways. I have interviewed at smaller businesses where the entire "management" team doesn't do anything, doesn't come into the office, and is just various family members of the original founder. Then there are the larger businesses that have a network of people who all know each other and connected and occupy positions with "manager" in them, whose day consists of just telling people to do things that the person they are telling could figure out and do without their existence and better.

PaulHoule 5y ago

The proliferation of this attitude... https://www.amazon.com/Aint-No-making-2nd-Second/dp/B002NAUW3A https://www.amazon.com/Aint-No-making-2nd-Second/dp/B002NAUW...

toomuchtodo 5y ago
https://openlibrary.org/books/OL1271149M/Ain%27t_no_makin%27_it https://openlibrary.org/books/OL1271149M/Ain%27t_no_makin%27...
- PaulHoule 5y ago
  To spoil a little, this book considers a group of low-income whites and a group of low-income blacks. As teenagers the whites have a pessimistic attitude about success but the blacks are more optimistic. Barriers to the success of both groups are looming. The first edition of the book stops there: one is left with the feeling that the plight of the two groups is not that different (e.g. "systemic racism" is a real thing but doesn't seem salient when you are know "white people with black problems") Somehow, however, the blacks believe that "they can overcome". In a follow-up study a decade later both groups are doing poorly, but the blacks in particular have had their hopes dashed by poverty, problems with the law, problems with work, etc.

walsand21 5y ago

Can I ask what movies you have in mind?

atraac 5y ago

> Those who manage to jump through all of the hoops don't realize that there is a secondary scam waiting for them: working for a wage without significant stock options while someone makes millions sitting around doing nothing off of their effort. I know this is the thing in US and shouldn't surprise me but I'm based in central Europe and honestly the thought of this still feels so abstract to me. I'd love to have an option of choosing jobs that offer stock options.

durnygbur 5y ago
Europe is behind of America in this regards, Europeans are submissive, timid, and desperate. Want to know where are your stock options? Travel south to the Mediterranean and watch - mansions, palaces, yachts, butiques, luxurious hotels, hostesses and models, German limousines and supercars. There they are.
- heurisko 5y ago
  I'm a Northern European and just buy stock on the market. My union is pretty strong, and I enjoy healthcare and more than two weeks holiday I hear is typical in the states. It's not altogether a good idea to have a lot invested in the company you work for, as if they go under, your stock is also not worth so much, and you might lose your income at the same time too.
- dang 5y ago
  Please don't take HN threads into nationalistic flamewar. It's a particularly avoidable kind of hell and we definitely want to avoid it on this site. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: we've unfortunately had to ask you this kind of thing repeatedly already: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27224106 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27224106 (May 2021) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26773557 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26773557 (April 2021) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20954524 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20954524 (Sept 2019) If you do it again we will ban you, so no more of this, please.

bob1029 5y ago

Stock options and other scalable forms of compensation are a huge deal for our organization now. The funny thing is we also don't give a shit about credentials anymore. We just want work ethic followed loosely by experience. Willingness to endure difficult things and learn is all we are really going for in a new hire these days. What is amazing to me is all of the business leaders who still insist on upholding these arbitrary gatekeepers. You are leaving a ton of talent on the table. I think the answer for many is to focus harder on the business value equation and to just let the people be free. Running a business like a power fantasy is not going to get you there. The more you try to control people the harder it will be to make money with them in the long term.

iejnfw 5y ago

>working for a wage without significant stock options while someone makes millions sitting around doing nothing off of their effort This seems to characterise almost every single place I have worked for or interviewed at in different ways. I have interviewed at smaller businesses where the entire "management" team doesn't do anything, doesn't come into the office, and is just various family members of the original founder. Then there are the larger businesses that have a network of people who all know each other and connected and occupy positions with "manager" in them, whose day consists of just telling people to do things that the person they are telling could figure out and do without their existence and better.