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There is harm in using to much energy, when we are on the brink of climate crisis. There is harm when people get swindled out of money. There is harm with cri

There is harm in using to much energy, when we are on the brink of climate crisis. There is harm when people get swindled out of money. There is harm with criminal organizations have ways to get huge amounts of capital.

shoulderfake 5y ago
Maybe go after industrial giants polluting the earth not bitcoin miners if you wanna fix climate change.
- burkaman 5y ago
  Why not both?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- pizzazzaro 5y ago
  Perhaps we could consider the chip shortage, and say that *coin mining is a bane on human existence.
- theshrike79 5y ago
  Industrial giants provide something of value and they have ways of making stuff more efficient and less polluting. Crypto miners produce nothing of value and the high energy consumption is a feature of the system.
  - dane-pgp 5y ago
    How do you measure "value"? A traditional measure is "What is someone willing to give up in exchange for something?". Of course, different people value things differently, but I don't know if there is an objective measure.
pfisch 5y ago
"There is harm with criminal organizations have way to get huge amounts of capital." Because this isn't already the case...
- johnyzee 5y ago
  With the criminal organizations as often as not being large investment banks...
meowkit 5y ago
> There is harm in using to much energy, when we are on the brink of climate crisis. You don't fight this on the demand side. You fight it on the supply side. > There is harm when people get swindled out of money. Take responsibility for your life. The government is not your friend. > There is harm with criminal organizations have ways to get huge amounts of capital. This is happening in the current economic system, and would be easier to fight if all transactions were on transparent ledgers.
- hakfoo 5y ago
  > You don't fight this on the demand side. You fight it on the supply side. I've actually wondered, greenhouse gasses aside, if the sheer amount of direct and incidental heat generation in a modern civilization, doesn't contribute to global warming. Even on 100% carbon-free electricity, when you run a 500-watt mining unit, it's still kicking out 499.99 watts worth of heat into the air. > Take responsibility for your life. The government is not your friend. What is the purpose of government if not to enforce laws and social standards like "don't swindle people"
  - dane-pgp 5y ago
    > Even on 100% carbon-free electricity, when you run a 500-watt mining unit, it's still kicking out 499.99 watts worth of heat into the air. To use a simplistic thought experiment, imagine that all the world's electricity production today came from photovoltaic solar. Would the world be hotter or cooler due to the electricity production? Obviously the electricity usage doesn't cause more solar energy to reach the Earth from the Sun (unless we start using energy-beaming satellites), and any processes on Earth can't turn a Joule of solar energy into more than a Joule of heat, so the heat balance stays the same. Except, of course, that by not burning fossil fuels (which are stored reserves of solar energy), we would actually reduce the amount of heat released on Earth, causing a slight cooling effect.
- antihero 5y ago
  As the article suggests, as long as people can make money by literally just burning through energy, it doesn't matter what the supply scales to, the demand will scale with it.
ezekg 5y ago
> There is harm in using to much energy, when we are on the brink of climate crisis. There are cryptocurrencies that do not use as much energy as Bitcoin. Really, none of your points are problems without solutions.
29athrowaway 5y ago
Many cryptocurrencies were created with none of those ideas in mind. Bitcoin is an energy hog, but not every cryptocurrency has to be Bitcoin. Ethereum doesn't use as much energy. Criminal organizations use regular banks too. In fact, many financial organizations are undistinguishable from criminal organizations.
logicalmonster 5y ago
> There is harm in using to much energy, when we are on the brink of climate crisis. I would argue that the only climate crisis that exists is a distinct lack of imagination. Nuclear Energy has already solved all of humanity's energy needs for decades and does so in a far more environmentally friendly manner than any renewable energy solution that currently exists. > There is harm when people get swindled out of money. Fiat currencies do not protect people from inflation. In fact, they're designed to enable it and systematically rob you of your savings and purchasing power without you even seeing it. Who's swindling who? > There is harm with criminal organizations have ways to get huge amounts of capital. Do criminals sometimes use crypto? Of course. Do you know what they use far more of? Dollars, Euros, Yuan, Yen, and other fiat currencies. Criminals get a lot more mileage out of fiat currency than moving their funds around on a public ledger.

shoulderfake 5y ago

Maybe go after industrial giants polluting the earth not bitcoin miners if you wanna fix climate change.

burkaman 5y ago
Why not both?
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
pizzazzaro 5y ago
Perhaps we could consider the chip shortage, and say that *coin mining is a bane on human existence.
theshrike79 5y ago
Industrial giants provide something of value and they have ways of making stuff more efficient and less polluting. Crypto miners produce nothing of value and the high energy consumption is a feature of the system.
- dane-pgp 5y ago
  How do you measure "value"? A traditional measure is "What is someone willing to give up in exchange for something?". Of course, different people value things differently, but I don't know if there is an objective measure.

pfisch 5y ago

"There is harm with criminal organizations have way to get huge amounts of capital." Because this isn't already the case...

johnyzee 5y ago
With the criminal organizations as often as not being large investment banks...

meowkit 5y ago

> There is harm in using to much energy, when we are on the brink of climate crisis. You don't fight this on the demand side. You fight it on the supply side. > There is harm when people get swindled out of money. Take responsibility for your life. The government is not your friend. > There is harm with criminal organizations have ways to get huge amounts of capital. This is happening in the current economic system, and would be easier to fight if all transactions were on transparent ledgers.

hakfoo 5y ago
> You don't fight this on the demand side. You fight it on the supply side. I've actually wondered, greenhouse gasses aside, if the sheer amount of direct and incidental heat generation in a modern civilization, doesn't contribute to global warming. Even on 100% carbon-free electricity, when you run a 500-watt mining unit, it's still kicking out 499.99 watts worth of heat into the air. > Take responsibility for your life. The government is not your friend. What is the purpose of government if not to enforce laws and social standards like "don't swindle people"
- dane-pgp 5y ago
  > Even on 100% carbon-free electricity, when you run a 500-watt mining unit, it's still kicking out 499.99 watts worth of heat into the air. To use a simplistic thought experiment, imagine that all the world's electricity production today came from photovoltaic solar. Would the world be hotter or cooler due to the electricity production? Obviously the electricity usage doesn't cause more solar energy to reach the Earth from the Sun (unless we start using energy-beaming satellites), and any processes on Earth can't turn a Joule of solar energy into more than a Joule of heat, so the heat balance stays the same. Except, of course, that by not burning fossil fuels (which are stored reserves of solar energy), we would actually reduce the amount of heat released on Earth, causing a slight cooling effect.
antihero 5y ago
As the article suggests, as long as people can make money by literally just burning through energy, it doesn't matter what the supply scales to, the demand will scale with it.

ezekg 5y ago

> There is harm in using to much energy, when we are on the brink of climate crisis. There are cryptocurrencies that do not use as much energy as Bitcoin. Really, none of your points are problems without solutions.

29athrowaway 5y ago

Many cryptocurrencies were created with none of those ideas in mind. Bitcoin is an energy hog, but not every cryptocurrency has to be Bitcoin. Ethereum doesn't use as much energy. Criminal organizations use regular banks too. In fact, many financial organizations are undistinguishable from criminal organizations.

logicalmonster 5y ago

> There is harm in using to much energy, when we are on the brink of climate crisis. I would argue that the only climate crisis that exists is a distinct lack of imagination. Nuclear Energy has already solved all of humanity's energy needs for decades and does so in a far more environmentally friendly manner than any renewable energy solution that currently exists. > There is harm when people get swindled out of money. Fiat currencies do not protect people from inflation. In fact, they're designed to enable it and systematically rob you of your savings and purchasing power without you even seeing it. Who's swindling who? > There is harm with criminal organizations have ways to get huge amounts of capital. Do criminals sometimes use crypto? Of course. Do you know what they use far more of? Dollars, Euros, Yuan, Yen, and other fiat currencies. Criminals get a lot more mileage out of fiat currency than moving their funds around on a public ledger.