4 ms·

I'd rather let users install their own OS with minimal roadblocks (one click verification, no loss in functionality, standard low-level interface), seems to me

by dvdkon 5y ago

I'd rather let users install their own OS with minimal roadblocks (one click verification, no loss in functionality, standard low-level interface), seems to me like a more feasible and general option than forcing support of whatever ad-ridden rubbish manufacturers cook up these days.

danuker 5y ago
This is already the case for some manufacturers: see phones supported by LineageOS.[1] But the manufacturers are changing device drivers like the I change my socks. The community can't keep up. [1] - https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/ https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/
- dvdkon 5y ago
  Right now, there's just not enough people to keep up with all the phones, but with a standard bootloader interface (let's call it EUFI :P), a lot of that work could be made easier and we could have universal images like on the PC. Also, we can't expect the community to thrive when installing a custom OS on phones is relegated to die-hard enthusiasts by manufacturers who constantly make the experience worse. EDIT: Many of those phones also lose capabilities users might care about by unlocking: playing DRM'd media, using banking apps... That all inhibits OS customisation.
  - summm 5y ago
    The that authoritarian DRM crap and a banking bullshit has to stop. Why do they work on old vulnerable Android stock versions, but not on new Lineage os? Security is a dumb excuse here, it is all about exercising power over the user.
jitix 5y ago
I think the goal here is to keep the phone usable for longer than to offer flexibility for tech enthusiasts. Most people who use phones don't even know what an OS is.
- dvdkon 5y ago
  Sure, but that's not the case for PCs. Almost every family I know has at least one guy who can update/reinstall Windows, and those who don't will know to take an old/broken PC to a repair shop. That mentality isn't there with phones, because historically it hasn't been easy to do more than a factory reset. If right-to-repair initiatives make repairing phones a normal thing, that could very well extend to phones in the right environment.
  - tgsovlerkhgsel 5y ago
    That guy has limited capacity, and will only support bespoke odd configurations of custom operating systems for so long until he gets a job, realizes this is way too much of a timesink, and announces that from now on, everyone gets a Chromebook.
    - dvdkon 5y ago
      My point is: Why should phones be any different to desktops with regards to OS availability/ease of installation? If we accept that a significant number of users do use that ability on desktops, why wouldn't they use it on phones?
      - AdrianB1 5y ago
        Because desktops have a higher degree of standardization of some parts needed for this, ex. UEFI, ACPI etc. while the ARM SoC world is full of customizations.
        summm 5y ago
        But there is no reason why it needs to stay that way.
      - tgsovlerkhgsel 5y ago
        Part of the reason why people use phones is that phones aren't as complex as desktops. You don't need to install an OS, it just works.
foresto 5y ago
Unfortunately, that's not enough, since old drivers and firmware remain as security risks even if the OS is updated. This is why GrapheneOS refuses to support hardware after the manufacturer drops support. https://grapheneos.org/faq#legacy-devices https://grapheneos.org/faq#legacy-devices

by dvdkon 5y ago

danuker 5y ago

This is already the case for some manufacturers: see phones supported by LineageOS.[1] But the manufacturers are changing device drivers like the I change my socks. The community can't keep up. [1] - https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/ https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/

dvdkon 5y ago
Right now, there's just not enough people to keep up with all the phones, but with a standard bootloader interface (let's call it EUFI :P), a lot of that work could be made easier and we could have universal images like on the PC. Also, we can't expect the community to thrive when installing a custom OS on phones is relegated to die-hard enthusiasts by manufacturers who constantly make the experience worse. EDIT: Many of those phones also lose capabilities users might care about by unlocking: playing DRM'd media, using banking apps... That all inhibits OS customisation.
- summm 5y ago
  The that authoritarian DRM crap and a banking bullshit has to stop. Why do they work on old vulnerable Android stock versions, but not on new Lineage os? Security is a dumb excuse here, it is all about exercising power over the user.

jitix 5y ago

I think the goal here is to keep the phone usable for longer than to offer flexibility for tech enthusiasts. Most people who use phones don't even know what an OS is.

dvdkon 5y ago
Sure, but that's not the case for PCs. Almost every family I know has at least one guy who can update/reinstall Windows, and those who don't will know to take an old/broken PC to a repair shop. That mentality isn't there with phones, because historically it hasn't been easy to do more than a factory reset. If right-to-repair initiatives make repairing phones a normal thing, that could very well extend to phones in the right environment.
- tgsovlerkhgsel 5y ago
  That guy has limited capacity, and will only support bespoke odd configurations of custom operating systems for so long until he gets a job, realizes this is way too much of a timesink, and announces that from now on, everyone gets a Chromebook.
  - dvdkon 5y ago
    My point is: Why should phones be any different to desktops with regards to OS availability/ease of installation? If we accept that a significant number of users do use that ability on desktops, why wouldn't they use it on phones?
    - AdrianB1 5y ago
      Because desktops have a higher degree of standardization of some parts needed for this, ex. UEFI, ACPI etc. while the ARM SoC world is full of customizations.
      - summm 5y ago
        But there is no reason why it needs to stay that way.
    - tgsovlerkhgsel 5y ago
      Part of the reason why people use phones is that phones aren't as complex as desktops. You don't need to install an OS, it just works.

foresto 5y ago

Unfortunately, that's not enough, since old drivers and firmware remain as security risks even if the OS is updated. This is why GrapheneOS refuses to support hardware after the manufacturer drops support. https://grapheneos.org/faq#legacy-devices https://grapheneos.org/faq#legacy-devices