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I think Germany proves that if you have neighbors with high base loads and you double electricity costs you can achieve a pretty significant use of renewables w

I think Germany proves that if you have neighbors with high base loads and you double electricity costs you can achieve a pretty significant use of renewables without sacrificing grid stability in a normal year. I don't think the but storage is used to argue we shouldn't build renewable resources. I see three parties to this argument in the states. 1. Climate change deniers - These people don't ever really ever argue about storage in good faith. Because they don't believe climate change is a problem. 2. Pro-Nuclear climate change believers - People who believe climate change is a problem that needs to be addressed and believe nuclear is probably our best bet. This is the group that brings up "but storage" all the time. 3. Anti-Nuclear climate change believers - These people believe that storage isn't really an issue or will be fixed shortly. They believe solar and wind is the solution to our climate change problem. Group 2 is believes in replacing fossil fuels with renewables. But when it comes to finite amounts of attention, and funding they believe nuclear is a better option.

ZeroGravitas 5y ago
My groups would be 1. People who don't or won't believe that renewables work 2. People who believe they do. So whether you like nuclear is irrelevant. If you like nuclear but hate renewables you're in group 1 with the climate change deniers, if you like nuclear but believe the general reality based consensus on renewables costs and viability you're in group 2 along with the people who don't like nuclear.
- flavius29663 5y ago
  In the end, global warming or not, fossil fuels are pretty bad on their own: - air quality, radiation from burning stuff - noise, pollution - accidents(mines, oil rigs etc.) - with every gallon/liter of oil you buy, you send at least 50% of those money to a foreign despot. Being a climate change "denier" is mostly irrelevant for this discussion.
  - ZeroGravitas 5y ago
    Doesn't affect my groups though. If you (correctly) think coal causes lots of pollution and fossil fuels have issues and need replaced then whether you end up in group 1 or 2 still depends on whether you agree with the general consensus that renewables are better/cheaper than nuclear or not.
    - flavius29663 5y ago
      I was not arguing with you, I was adding to the point you made
LorenPechtel 5y ago
Germany proves nothing. As you say, "if you have neighbors". Germany pretends to be good but really is just exporting the problem. If your solution requires neighbors doing it different ways it can't be scaled.

ZeroGravitas 5y ago

My groups would be 1. People who don't or won't believe that renewables work 2. People who believe they do. So whether you like nuclear is irrelevant. If you like nuclear but hate renewables you're in group 1 with the climate change deniers, if you like nuclear but believe the general reality based consensus on renewables costs and viability you're in group 2 along with the people who don't like nuclear.

flavius29663 5y ago
In the end, global warming or not, fossil fuels are pretty bad on their own: - air quality, radiation from burning stuff - noise, pollution - accidents(mines, oil rigs etc.) - with every gallon/liter of oil you buy, you send at least 50% of those money to a foreign despot. Being a climate change "denier" is mostly irrelevant for this discussion.
- ZeroGravitas 5y ago
  Doesn't affect my groups though. If you (correctly) think coal causes lots of pollution and fossil fuels have issues and need replaced then whether you end up in group 1 or 2 still depends on whether you agree with the general consensus that renewables are better/cheaper than nuclear or not.
  - flavius29663 5y ago
    I was not arguing with you, I was adding to the point you made

LorenPechtel 5y ago

Germany proves nothing. As you say, "if you have neighbors". Germany pretends to be good but really is just exporting the problem. If your solution requires neighbors doing it different ways it can't be scaled.