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I agree. The fact ProtonMail exists in a world that's pretty hostile to individual privacy is hardly their fault, I think they were pretty good at explaining wh

I agree. The fact ProtonMail exists in a world that's pretty hostile to individual privacy is hardly their fault, I think they were pretty good at explaining what their limits are compared to a lot of companies out there. It'd be churlish to leave ProtonMail for say, Gmail or another mainstream offering that makes far less of an effort to be private and transparent in my opinion. I feel there's a lot of people who are absolutists about privacy without realising the legal and technical realities of that absolutism. I don't agree for one minute with governments and corporations compromising people's privacy, but whatever we like to tell ourselves about liberal democracy all authority amounts to "might makes right" in the end, and ProtonMail doesn't have the mightiest club to swing around in this situation.

woko 5y ago
These "absolutists" are people looking for: - a service which would blindly accept money/crypto-money, - in exchange of a worldwide legal shield which would take all of the heat resulting from the user's anonymous actions. This service is not going to exist for $100/year. It would not even be safe to offer such a service for a million dollars per year, because the responsibility could be huge (terrorist attacks, human trafficking, etc.). Nobody in their right mind would be ready to bear this kind of legal responsibility without trusting (and thus knowing) their customers.
- quantumBerry 5y ago
  Why would protonmail be responsible for human traffic that happens unbeknownst to them? They don't need to "shield" merely just don't keep any logs so there is nothing to seize. If I go to walmart and buy a trailer with cash while wearing a mask (which walmart blindly accepts) to cram a bunch of illegals in to cross the border, why would that be walmart's fault if they don't have any log of who I am? Are you demanding walmart keep KYC of anyone buying knives, trailers, and anything else that could be used for illegal purposes.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - JumpCrisscross 5y ago
    > demanding walmart keep KYC of anyone buying knives, trailers, and anything else that could be used for illegal purposes Nobody is. But if you buy a trailer every week, it wouldn’t be unreasonable for law enforcement to ask Walmart to let them organise a sting outside or even just leave a video camera on premises. They could do that without a warrant in the U.S., Walmart willing, something that is illegal with ProtonMail in Switzerland.
2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago
How is it hostile to user privacy to respond to legal requests for information?
- oblio 5y ago
  It's not. My guess is that some folks are of a hard libertarian leaning even verging into sovereign citizenship.
nicce 5y ago
I just can’t get over how their billing model works. Making bills and locking account suddenly without a warning. It felt so big scam that I’m not coming back regardless of whatever the privacy is.

woko 5y ago

These "absolutists" are people looking for: - a service which would blindly accept money/crypto-money, - in exchange of a worldwide legal shield which would take all of the heat resulting from the user's anonymous actions. This service is not going to exist for $100/year. It would not even be safe to offer such a service for a million dollars per year, because the responsibility could be huge (terrorist attacks, human trafficking, etc.). Nobody in their right mind would be ready to bear this kind of legal responsibility without trusting (and thus knowing) their customers.

quantumBerry 5y ago
Why would protonmail be responsible for human traffic that happens unbeknownst to them? They don't need to "shield" merely just don't keep any logs so there is nothing to seize. If I go to walmart and buy a trailer with cash while wearing a mask (which walmart blindly accepts) to cram a bunch of illegals in to cross the border, why would that be walmart's fault if they don't have any log of who I am? Are you demanding walmart keep KYC of anyone buying knives, trailers, and anything else that could be used for illegal purposes.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- JumpCrisscross 5y ago
  > demanding walmart keep KYC of anyone buying knives, trailers, and anything else that could be used for illegal purposes Nobody is. But if you buy a trailer every week, it wouldn’t be unreasonable for law enforcement to ask Walmart to let them organise a sting outside or even just leave a video camera on premises. They could do that without a warrant in the U.S., Walmart willing, something that is illegal with ProtonMail in Switzerland.

2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago

How is it hostile to user privacy to respond to legal requests for information?

oblio 5y ago
It's not. My guess is that some folks are of a hard libertarian leaning even verging into sovereign citizenship.

nicce 5y ago

I just can’t get over how their billing model works. Making bills and locking account suddenly without a warning. It felt so big scam that I’m not coming back regardless of whatever the privacy is.