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The Veteran never learned: Don't talk to the cops. "Am I being detained? Am I free to go?" Is all he needs to say. "So when the officer asked him about carryin

The Veteran never learned: Don't talk to the cops. "Am I being detained? Am I free to go?" Is all he needs to say. "So when the officer asked him about carrying cash, Stephen said “yes.” When the officer asked to search his car, he said “yes.” And when the officer asked about the source of the cash, Stephen showed him over two years’ worth of bank receipts. Stephen did everything he was told, and answered every question he was asked."

skybrian 5y ago
Yes, but more relevant in this case is not carrying around $86,000 in cash. It’s legal but not smart.
- salawat 5y ago
  Excuse me, but to hell with this logic. While you agree it is not a crime, the reality of enforcement measures like this means it de facto is considered one in the gestalt of law enforcement. It should not ever be construed as suspicious to carry around large quantities of cash. It is not acceptable to see someone with over 2000 dollars in cash, and assume they are up to something. People are losing sight of the fact that financial privacy was the default for much of history, and the new phenomena of financial surveillance since the 2000's is absolutely a governmental power play, utilizing the financial system as a tool for soft power projection in that the hand that defines the set of transactions that can be conveniently done wields an immense amount of power and influence in people's day to day lives. This is a shining example of how the United States has abandoned any semblance of being a fundamentally high trust society anymore.
- CodesInChaos 5y ago
  At least in countries where armed highway robbery is common, which apparently includes the US.
- grayhatter 5y ago
  You're right it's stupid this guy clearly deserved to have his money stolen illegally by the government. it's doubly his fault because he allowed the police officer to follow him for long enough that he violated one of the uncountable number of traffic laws. it's Triply his fault because he was trying to be kind and courteous and respectful and cooperative with the officer. what other ways can we blame the guy who had his money stolen for getting his money stolen?
  - BiteCode_dev 5y ago
    Also, the way he was dressed called for it. Besides, the body has a way to shut down police abuse if you don't want to.
  - skybrian 5y ago
    I didn't say that. What I'm saying is that if "don't tell the police anything" is good advice, "don't carry large amounts of cash" is also good advice. In a just world, neither talking to the police nor carrying cash would result in your money getting stolen.
    - grayhatter 5y ago
      I don't actually agree that carrying a large amount of money is inherently stupid. It's riskier than not carrying cash, but doing something risky is not the same thing as doing something stupid. That said even if it was stupid and it was an obvious mistake. Why mention he made a mistake at all? If not to point out that he shares some of the blame because of that mistake? It might be good advice, but only if it carries an alternative. Pointing out a risk isn't advice, it's a warning. "don't carry large amounts of cash because it might get stolen" vs "electronic transfers between two bank accounts lowers the risk your money will be stolen". But I assume we both agree but that's not really a helpful piece of advice in this case.
- tuukkah 5y ago
  We should not blame him as he did nothing wrong and was victimised without reason. On the other hand, it's relevant to remind everyone that replying to questions from the law enforcement can get you in trouble although you did nothing wrong. (I don't think anyone is blaming him for answering as that's the normal thing to do.)
  - guerrilla 5y ago
    On the other hand, it's relevant to remind everyone that not replying to questions from the law enforcement can get you in trouble although you did nothing wrong.
    - tuukkah 5y ago
      I don't think many people need to be reminded, but sure, it's a nice catch-22.
JumpCrisscross 5y ago
> Veteran never learned: Don't talk to the cops. "Am I being detained? Am I free to go?" Is all he needs to say. Do you really think this situation would have resolved into “aw shucks, you got me” if he had said this?
- jakelazaroff 5y ago
  Very weird to me that so many people think asserting your rights is some magic incantation that will get you out of any police encounter scot-free. We're commenting on a story in which cops literally stole a hapless man’s money. Is that not a tip-off that they’ll happily break the law when it suits them?
  - kook_throwaway 5y ago
    When you start asserting your rights and recording some of the more corrupt cops move on to legally stealing from folks that cooperate. There's really no reason to make the corruption easier to get away with.
- sterlind 5y ago
  I think if he hadn't told the cops he was carrying large amounts of money, and hadn't consented to a search, they probably wouldn't have gotten the money. personally I'd have been polite but firm and said "sorry officer, I'm uncomfortable answering questions."
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - dharmab 5y ago
    Due to Salinas v. Texas, you now need to say "I am invoking my fifth amendment right to remain silent."
    - fencepost 5y ago
      For more layperson level detail, https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2013/06/salinas-v-texas-right-to-remain-silent-supreme-court-right-to-remain-silent-supreme-court-fifth-amendment-fifth-amendment-right-to-remain-silent-constitutional-right-to-remain-silent-constitution-right-to-remain-silent-nicholas-yarris.html https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2013/06/salinas-v-texas-...
NelsonMinar 5y ago
Unless the cop invents a new pretext to harass him. Maybe he thinks he saw drug paraphernalia in the car. Maybe he thinks Stephen was resisting. Maybe he puts his knee on Stephen's neck and holds it there for 7, 8, 9 minutes. I winced when I read "Stephen did everything he was told" because that led to the police stealing his money. But what else can he do? The cop has the power to kill him and very likely get away with it. And it happens with enough frequency to be a real threat.
- WhompingWindows 5y ago
  The cops can decide to do anything with us, yes this is a sad reality of the USA. This doesn't mean we should invite them freely to search our possessions looking for ways to get kickbacks and meet their monthly quotas. Don't give the cops any information, don't give them opportunities to flex their institutional incentives. Just be a calm, boring, silent citizen.
  - NelsonMinar 5y ago
    Also be white if you can.

skybrian 5y ago

Yes, but more relevant in this case is not carrying around $86,000 in cash. It’s legal but not smart.

salawat 5y ago
Excuse me, but to hell with this logic. While you agree it is not a crime, the reality of enforcement measures like this means it de facto is considered one in the gestalt of law enforcement. It should not ever be construed as suspicious to carry around large quantities of cash. It is not acceptable to see someone with over 2000 dollars in cash, and assume they are up to something. People are losing sight of the fact that financial privacy was the default for much of history, and the new phenomena of financial surveillance since the 2000's is absolutely a governmental power play, utilizing the financial system as a tool for soft power projection in that the hand that defines the set of transactions that can be conveniently done wields an immense amount of power and influence in people's day to day lives. This is a shining example of how the United States has abandoned any semblance of being a fundamentally high trust society anymore.
CodesInChaos 5y ago
At least in countries where armed highway robbery is common, which apparently includes the US.
grayhatter 5y ago
You're right it's stupid this guy clearly deserved to have his money stolen illegally by the government. it's doubly his fault because he allowed the police officer to follow him for long enough that he violated one of the uncountable number of traffic laws. it's Triply his fault because he was trying to be kind and courteous and respectful and cooperative with the officer. what other ways can we blame the guy who had his money stolen for getting his money stolen?
- BiteCode_dev 5y ago
  Also, the way he was dressed called for it. Besides, the body has a way to shut down police abuse if you don't want to.
- skybrian 5y ago
  I didn't say that. What I'm saying is that if "don't tell the police anything" is good advice, "don't carry large amounts of cash" is also good advice. In a just world, neither talking to the police nor carrying cash would result in your money getting stolen.
  - grayhatter 5y ago
    I don't actually agree that carrying a large amount of money is inherently stupid. It's riskier than not carrying cash, but doing something risky is not the same thing as doing something stupid. That said even if it was stupid and it was an obvious mistake. Why mention he made a mistake at all? If not to point out that he shares some of the blame because of that mistake? It might be good advice, but only if it carries an alternative. Pointing out a risk isn't advice, it's a warning. "don't carry large amounts of cash because it might get stolen" vs "electronic transfers between two bank accounts lowers the risk your money will be stolen". But I assume we both agree but that's not really a helpful piece of advice in this case.
tuukkah 5y ago
We should not blame him as he did nothing wrong and was victimised without reason. On the other hand, it's relevant to remind everyone that replying to questions from the law enforcement can get you in trouble although you did nothing wrong. (I don't think anyone is blaming him for answering as that's the normal thing to do.)
- guerrilla 5y ago
  On the other hand, it's relevant to remind everyone that not replying to questions from the law enforcement can get you in trouble although you did nothing wrong.
  - tuukkah 5y ago
    I don't think many people need to be reminded, but sure, it's a nice catch-22.

JumpCrisscross 5y ago

> Veteran never learned: Don't talk to the cops. "Am I being detained? Am I free to go?" Is all he needs to say. Do you really think this situation would have resolved into “aw shucks, you got me” if he had said this?

jakelazaroff 5y ago
Very weird to me that so many people think asserting your rights is some magic incantation that will get you out of any police encounter scot-free. We're commenting on a story in which cops literally stole a hapless man’s money. Is that not a tip-off that they’ll happily break the law when it suits them?
- kook_throwaway 5y ago
  When you start asserting your rights and recording some of the more corrupt cops move on to legally stealing from folks that cooperate. There's really no reason to make the corruption easier to get away with.
sterlind 5y ago
I think if he hadn't told the cops he was carrying large amounts of money, and hadn't consented to a search, they probably wouldn't have gotten the money. personally I'd have been polite but firm and said "sorry officer, I'm uncomfortable answering questions."
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- dharmab 5y ago
  Due to Salinas v. Texas, you now need to say "I am invoking my fifth amendment right to remain silent."
  - fencepost 5y ago
    For more layperson level detail, https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2013/06/salinas-v-texas-right-to-remain-silent-supreme-court-right-to-remain-silent-supreme-court-fifth-amendment-fifth-amendment-right-to-remain-silent-constitutional-right-to-remain-silent-constitution-right-to-remain-silent-nicholas-yarris.html https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2013/06/salinas-v-texas-...

NelsonMinar 5y ago

Unless the cop invents a new pretext to harass him. Maybe he thinks he saw drug paraphernalia in the car. Maybe he thinks Stephen was resisting. Maybe he puts his knee on Stephen's neck and holds it there for 7, 8, 9 minutes. I winced when I read "Stephen did everything he was told" because that led to the police stealing his money. But what else can he do? The cop has the power to kill him and very likely get away with it. And it happens with enough frequency to be a real threat.

WhompingWindows 5y ago
The cops can decide to do anything with us, yes this is a sad reality of the USA. This doesn't mean we should invite them freely to search our possessions looking for ways to get kickbacks and meet their monthly quotas. Don't give the cops any information, don't give them opportunities to flex their institutional incentives. Just be a calm, boring, silent citizen.
- NelsonMinar 5y ago
  Also be white if you can.