5 ms·

Oh well, Proton just became useless.

by mariopt 5y ago

shapefrog 5y ago
Back to gmail then?
- mariopt 5y ago
  If expressing a political opinion is all that takes, I don't see any difference between using Proton and Gmail. Of course, they only logged it after the request but they did it. You would be much better off by using a non-European/USA/Western provider.
- damtr 5y ago
  Oh really? are u playing stupid or what? there's a massive alternative of protonmail just to know, I2P is example.
ithkuil 5y ago
> Under current Swiss law, email and VPN are treated differently, and ProtonVPN cannot be compelled to log user data. > Under no circumstances can our encryption be bypassed, meaning emails, attachments, calendars, files, etc. cannot be compromised by legal orders. > [..] We will also clarify that the use of our onion site (details below) is highly recommended for users who want anonymity Source: https://protonmail.com/blog/climate-activist-arrest/ https://protonmail.com/blog/climate-activist-arrest/ So I guess you should be using Tor or protonVPN if you don't want to hide your access logs from swiss authorities. They could have done a better job at explaining the threat model to the wider public, but I wouldn't say they are useless. I think it's advisable to not have a knee jerk reaction. EDIT: link to their published threat model: https://protonmail.com/blog/protonmail-threat-model/ https://protonmail.com/blog/protonmail-threat-model/
Shacklz 5y ago
While the incident is really a bit worrying, I'm personally not paying PM to protect me from state-agents - I'm paying them to protect me from Joe working in marketing. If a state agent wants my data and brings the necessary paperwork to get it - I'm not expecting anyone to put up a hopeless fight for me, or at least not for the 100 bucks or so that I'm paying yearly for PM. I just expect them to not sell out my data altogether, which PM doesn't seem to be doing, and this is all (or at least, most) that I care about.
- southerntofu 5y ago
  Even when that's a foreign state agent making a clear case of political repression against activists? Would you expect protonmail to collaborate with Russian/Chinese intelligence and rat out on you because you criticized Putin and maybe put up anti-FSB posters on the streets?
  - GreenWatermelon 5y ago
    They didn't cooperate with a foreign government, the complied with a swiss court order. The problem here is with swiss law, not ProtonMail.
    - southerntofu 5y ago
      That a corrupt judge/government incited you to collaborate with another corrupt government's political police doesn't change the fact that this collaboration took place. Without abiding by Godwin's law, "i was merely operating under local regulations" is a well-known defense of nazi collaborators during WWII and was considered an invalid argument then and now. If you ever receive a court order ordering you to kill someone, will you do it without even giving it second thoughts just because it's a local law?! See also: milgram experiment, stanford experiment, and in general social studies on the authoratitive/fascist mindset.
justupvoting 5y ago
Well, that's the baby out with the bathwater, then. Defense in depth, always.

Oh well, Proton just became useless.

shapefrog 5y ago

Back to gmail then?

mariopt 5y ago
If expressing a political opinion is all that takes, I don't see any difference between using Proton and Gmail. Of course, they only logged it after the request but they did it. You would be much better off by using a non-European/USA/Western provider.
damtr 5y ago
Oh really? are u playing stupid or what? there's a massive alternative of protonmail just to know, I2P is example.

ithkuil 5y ago

> Under current Swiss law, email and VPN are treated differently, and ProtonVPN cannot be compelled to log user data. > Under no circumstances can our encryption be bypassed, meaning emails, attachments, calendars, files, etc. cannot be compromised by legal orders. > [..] We will also clarify that the use of our onion site (details below) is highly recommended for users who want anonymity Source: https://protonmail.com/blog/climate-activist-arrest/ https://protonmail.com/blog/climate-activist-arrest/ So I guess you should be using Tor or protonVPN if you don't want to hide your access logs from swiss authorities. They could have done a better job at explaining the threat model to the wider public, but I wouldn't say they are useless. I think it's advisable to not have a knee jerk reaction. EDIT: link to their published threat model: https://protonmail.com/blog/protonmail-threat-model/ https://protonmail.com/blog/protonmail-threat-model/

Shacklz 5y ago

While the incident is really a bit worrying, I'm personally not paying PM to protect me from state-agents - I'm paying them to protect me from Joe working in marketing. If a state agent wants my data and brings the necessary paperwork to get it - I'm not expecting anyone to put up a hopeless fight for me, or at least not for the 100 bucks or so that I'm paying yearly for PM. I just expect them to not sell out my data altogether, which PM doesn't seem to be doing, and this is all (or at least, most) that I care about.

southerntofu 5y ago
Even when that's a foreign state agent making a clear case of political repression against activists? Would you expect protonmail to collaborate with Russian/Chinese intelligence and rat out on you because you criticized Putin and maybe put up anti-FSB posters on the streets?
- GreenWatermelon 5y ago
  They didn't cooperate with a foreign government, the complied with a swiss court order. The problem here is with swiss law, not ProtonMail.
  - southerntofu 5y ago
    That a corrupt judge/government incited you to collaborate with another corrupt government's political police doesn't change the fact that this collaboration took place. Without abiding by Godwin's law, "i was merely operating under local regulations" is a well-known defense of nazi collaborators during WWII and was considered an invalid argument then and now. If you ever receive a court order ordering you to kill someone, will you do it without even giving it second thoughts just because it's a local law?! See also: milgram experiment, stanford experiment, and in general social studies on the authoratitive/fascist mindset.

justupvoting 5y ago

Well, that's the baby out with the bathwater, then. Defense in depth, always.