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I stepped back from a group chat because the fellows in it swore by “Mental Health TikTok,” where therapists give mental health advice. This is concerning to me

I stepped back from a group chat because the fellows in it swore by “Mental Health TikTok,” where therapists give mental health advice. This is concerning to me. Beyond that, the data collection and the way it mixes young-but-of-age mildly sexual content with underage guys imitating them makes me stay far away. I enjoyed the handsome men in various states of undress but couldn’t find a way to make the app not veer into underage content, no matter how many times I told it what I liked. Disturbing.

wutbrodo 5y ago
> I stepped back from a group chat because the fellows in it swore by “Mental Health TikTok,” where therapists give mental health advice. This is concerning to me What's concerning about this? I don't mean this rhetorically: I'm genuinely curious, as I've heard people say similar things recently. It seems to me that, like metabolic health, there's a pretty large body of basic mental health advice that's safe and salutary, and that doesn't displace heavy-duty mental Healthcare for those who need it (in the same way that healthy recipe tips don't displace insulin shots).
- Rd6n6 5y ago
  Mental health discussions and advice are traditionally given under strong privacy guarantees
  - wutbrodo 5y ago
    You've mixed together two-way (discussion) and one-way (advice) mental health communication. Your point only applies to discussion, and the tiktok example only involves advice. Concretely, what privacy concern do you see in watching a video with mental health tips? Do you think this privacy concern similarly extends to reading a Wikipedia article on (eg) CBT techniques? Or am I misunderstanding, and "Mental health tiktok" involves users describing their mental health issues in videos that they post, and a back-and-forth with those who are claiming to "treat" them?
    - Rd6n6 5y ago
      It’s 2 way. The tracking and profiling algorithms infer a lot by watching people. The viewers might not realize it’s two way though
      - wutbrodo 5y ago
        That's an extremely expansive definition of "two-way", to the point of meaninglessness. If you were to bite this bullet, you'd also preclude the type of extremely basic work to get informed that any patient should be doing when engaging with the healthcare system (including for physical health). Basic research about your health problems doesn't even preclude putting full faith in your doctor and his recommendations; they're helpful in the general case for even understanding conversations with him. And this type of web search provides infinitely more "two-way" loss of privacy than signal from tiktok recommendations. This is worth elaborating on, since I know HN tends to have a bizarre fantasy conception of the medical system where patients arent supposed to understand anything that's happening. I have to wonder if the HNers contributing to this conception have ever engaged with the medical system, or if they have, I have to pity those that they're responsible for. There are plenty of doctors in my family, and I've been responsible for managing both chronic and severe acute health issues for family members. Every single one of the doctors I've been in contact with would be shocked by the notion that patients shouldn't be informing thenselves at a basic level. This goes quadruply for basic preventive measures like nutrition, exercise, or basic mental health practices: there's a reason that "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure".
        gentleman11 5y ago
        I don’t think you want mental health information going where it could be used against you. Eg, > Cheng believes the website that doxed him by publishing his personal information online was started by pro-Beijing supporters in Hong Kong. > “I feel fear,” he admitted. His family, too, was scared and told him not to walk home alone anymore. But part of Cheng remains defiant as he considers the doxing website a component of a larger campaign to incite fear in protesters as mass demonstrations continue into their third month. https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/rosalindadams/hong-kong-doxing-protesters-china-encourage https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/rosalindadams/hong-kong... https://mashable.com/article/doj-accuses-zoom-employee-china-censorship https://mashable.com/article/doj-accuses-zoom-employee-china...
- 28433552 5y ago
  It was apparent in the group chat I was in that these guys were replacing heavy-duty mental healthcare with tips provided by unverified sources on TikTok. A chat where we went to vent about our frustrations turned into peer-to-peer mental health diagnosis informed by these TikTok doctors, telephoned through these regular, non-doctor participants. It struck me as the kind of thing that leads people to, for example, ingeste chloroquine phosphate [0] on the advice of a celebrity. [0]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/24/coronavirus-cure-kills-man-after-trump-touts-chloroquine-phosphate https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/24/coronavirus-cu...
  - wutbrodo 5y ago
    > It was apparent in the group chat I was in that these guys were replacing heavy-duty mental healthcare with tips provided by unverified sources on TikTok Gotcha, thanks for clarifying!

wutbrodo 5y ago

> I stepped back from a group chat because the fellows in it swore by “Mental Health TikTok,” where therapists give mental health advice. This is concerning to me What's concerning about this? I don't mean this rhetorically: I'm genuinely curious, as I've heard people say similar things recently. It seems to me that, like metabolic health, there's a pretty large body of basic mental health advice that's safe and salutary, and that doesn't displace heavy-duty mental Healthcare for those who need it (in the same way that healthy recipe tips don't displace insulin shots).

Rd6n6 5y ago
Mental health discussions and advice are traditionally given under strong privacy guarantees
- wutbrodo 5y ago
  You've mixed together two-way (discussion) and one-way (advice) mental health communication. Your point only applies to discussion, and the tiktok example only involves advice. Concretely, what privacy concern do you see in watching a video with mental health tips? Do you think this privacy concern similarly extends to reading a Wikipedia article on (eg) CBT techniques? Or am I misunderstanding, and "Mental health tiktok" involves users describing their mental health issues in videos that they post, and a back-and-forth with those who are claiming to "treat" them?
  - Rd6n6 5y ago
    It’s 2 way. The tracking and profiling algorithms infer a lot by watching people. The viewers might not realize it’s two way though
    - wutbrodo 5y ago
      That's an extremely expansive definition of "two-way", to the point of meaninglessness. If you were to bite this bullet, you'd also preclude the type of extremely basic work to get informed that any patient should be doing when engaging with the healthcare system (including for physical health). Basic research about your health problems doesn't even preclude putting full faith in your doctor and his recommendations; they're helpful in the general case for even understanding conversations with him. And this type of web search provides infinitely more "two-way" loss of privacy than signal from tiktok recommendations. This is worth elaborating on, since I know HN tends to have a bizarre fantasy conception of the medical system where patients arent supposed to understand anything that's happening. I have to wonder if the HNers contributing to this conception have ever engaged with the medical system, or if they have, I have to pity those that they're responsible for. There are plenty of doctors in my family, and I've been responsible for managing both chronic and severe acute health issues for family members. Every single one of the doctors I've been in contact with would be shocked by the notion that patients shouldn't be informing thenselves at a basic level. This goes quadruply for basic preventive measures like nutrition, exercise, or basic mental health practices: there's a reason that "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure".
      - gentleman11 5y ago
        I don’t think you want mental health information going where it could be used against you. Eg, > Cheng believes the website that doxed him by publishing his personal information online was started by pro-Beijing supporters in Hong Kong. > “I feel fear,” he admitted. His family, too, was scared and told him not to walk home alone anymore. But part of Cheng remains defiant as he considers the doxing website a component of a larger campaign to incite fear in protesters as mass demonstrations continue into their third month. https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/rosalindadams/hong-kong-doxing-protesters-china-encourage https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/rosalindadams/hong-kong... https://mashable.com/article/doj-accuses-zoom-employee-china-censorship https://mashable.com/article/doj-accuses-zoom-employee-china...
28433552 5y ago
It was apparent in the group chat I was in that these guys were replacing heavy-duty mental healthcare with tips provided by unverified sources on TikTok. A chat where we went to vent about our frustrations turned into peer-to-peer mental health diagnosis informed by these TikTok doctors, telephoned through these regular, non-doctor participants. It struck me as the kind of thing that leads people to, for example, ingeste chloroquine phosphate [0] on the advice of a celebrity. [0]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/24/coronavirus-cure-kills-man-after-trump-touts-chloroquine-phosphate https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/24/coronavirus-cu...
- wutbrodo 5y ago
  > It was apparent in the group chat I was in that these guys were replacing heavy-duty mental healthcare with tips provided by unverified sources on TikTok Gotcha, thanks for clarifying!