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> Need to run on-prem, it's mostly the wiki-like features I'm interested in. Since you are looking mostly for the wiki part there is Dokuwiki which is magnitud

> Need to run on-prem, it's mostly the wiki-like features I'm interested in. Since you are looking mostly for the wiki part there is Dokuwiki which is magnitudes better at being a wiki. Remember, wiki is derived from the Hawaiian word for quick or something to that effect and whatever Confluence is it isn't quick. Don't know how well it will hold up under scrutiny if black hats gets a reason to swarm over it, but unlike Confluence you can hire someone to patch the guts of it if necessary. Edit: I have no reason to believe it is worse than anything else, I'm just pointing out it probably hasn't had so much exposure to help it harden.

bbarnett 5y ago
The downvotes make no sense to me. Maybe mentioning the value of open source, as you did, is disliked? Dunno. Weird.
philpem 5y ago
I get the sense that there are a few Atlassian employees on HN this morning... Jira and Confluence are "okay" at what they do, but they're horribly inefficient. I wonder how much energy would be saved if all the JIRA and Confluence server farms were replaced with single servers or redundant setups running something more efficient. Atlassian seems to be one of the subjects of the 2000's versions of the old line: "nobody got fired for buying IBM". Anyway the discussion in this thread is interesting to me - just to hear about the alternatives.
detaro 5y ago
For a non-technical user group you likely want something more WYSIWYG than Dokuwiki.
- skinkestek 5y ago
  Maybe. But I have a hunch that we are severely underestimating huge parts of the workforce. I mean: ux discussions often feels like they assume users are a separate species somewhere between ordinary humans and chimps when it comes to intelligence. I have some experience with training users and I have only given up once.
  - detaro 5y ago
    I fully agree that you can train users for a lot. But the question is if it's worth doing so in the specific case. And wikis often already have trouble with people not using them enough, making them seemingly hard to use doesn't help.
    - skinkestek 5y ago
      Don't forget that in many ways some real wikis like Dokuwiki are simpler and more user-friendly than Confluence: - you can edit a paragraph without locking or creating conflicts for the whole page - it is much faster, and as far as I can see the observe–orient–decide–act loop is a real thing and should be taken into account - much better wiki syntax (compared to old Confluence) - trivially extensible so you can create forms and other helpers to make it simpler for users to do the right thing - if one absolutely need it I think there exist at least one wysiwyg extension for Dokuwiki
  - Tostino 5y ago
    In my experience, it depends on the industry and company how competent their users will be. I've been a training (back when thinngs were in person) where a user started getting irate because their login wouldn't work to our software. The trainer walked over to see what was going on, and the user was trying to put their login credentials into their bank website instead of ours. These were sales people. So often, somewhere right above a chimp is where some of your users are.
gjvc 5y ago
I'm betting the downvotes are Atlassian employees attempting damage limitation / astroturfing.
- dang 5y ago
  You broke the site guidelines with this. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it. Note these: "Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data." "Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading."

bbarnett 5y ago

The downvotes make no sense to me. Maybe mentioning the value of open source, as you did, is disliked? Dunno. Weird.

philpem 5y ago

I get the sense that there are a few Atlassian employees on HN this morning... Jira and Confluence are "okay" at what they do, but they're horribly inefficient. I wonder how much energy would be saved if all the JIRA and Confluence server farms were replaced with single servers or redundant setups running something more efficient. Atlassian seems to be one of the subjects of the 2000's versions of the old line: "nobody got fired for buying IBM". Anyway the discussion in this thread is interesting to me - just to hear about the alternatives.

detaro 5y ago

For a non-technical user group you likely want something more WYSIWYG than Dokuwiki.

skinkestek 5y ago
Maybe. But I have a hunch that we are severely underestimating huge parts of the workforce. I mean: ux discussions often feels like they assume users are a separate species somewhere between ordinary humans and chimps when it comes to intelligence. I have some experience with training users and I have only given up once.
- detaro 5y ago
  I fully agree that you can train users for a lot. But the question is if it's worth doing so in the specific case. And wikis often already have trouble with people not using them enough, making them seemingly hard to use doesn't help.
  - skinkestek 5y ago
    Don't forget that in many ways some real wikis like Dokuwiki are simpler and more user-friendly than Confluence: - you can edit a paragraph without locking or creating conflicts for the whole page - it is much faster, and as far as I can see the observe–orient–decide–act loop is a real thing and should be taken into account - much better wiki syntax (compared to old Confluence) - trivially extensible so you can create forms and other helpers to make it simpler for users to do the right thing - if one absolutely need it I think there exist at least one wysiwyg extension for Dokuwiki
- Tostino 5y ago
  In my experience, it depends on the industry and company how competent their users will be. I've been a training (back when thinngs were in person) where a user started getting irate because their login wouldn't work to our software. The trainer walked over to see what was going on, and the user was trying to put their login credentials into their bank website instead of ours. These were sales people. So often, somewhere right above a chimp is where some of your users are.

gjvc 5y ago

I'm betting the downvotes are Atlassian employees attempting damage limitation / astroturfing.

dang 5y ago
You broke the site guidelines with this. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it. Note these: "Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data." "Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading."