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Its not a civilization crisis its a governance crisis (which is an important but small fraction of what constitutes a "civilization"). The adage "we have the po

Its not a civilization crisis its a governance crisis (which is an important but small fraction of what constitutes a "civilization"). The adage "we have the politicians that we deserve" is true in the long term average but it may well not be true at each time-step. The political system that produces governance is in itself a piece of social technology (set of laws, procedures, morals, behaviors etc) and it can easily become unfit-for-purpose. Why? because one of its primary tasks is to perpetuate an existing order. If it overdoes this "stabilization" task (that is, ignores material shifts in reality) it can hold society hostage. That period of disconnect between what society needs and what its organizational tech is offering can feel gut-wrenching and surreal. All of the dysfunctions of the current era, e.g. environmental un-sustainability, absurd levels of inequality, rampant surveillance capitalism are well recognized and studied and, by-and-large, blueprints for solutions exist. Dig to find what is standing in the way and it is invariably i) an aged male politician and/or corporate leader who ii) has built a long career over decades knitting power networks with similar "winners" of his generation iii) is incapable of reinventing / invalidating himself and iv) will only be forced away from the cookie jar. Maybe what is happening is not civilizational collapse but enormous resources and human talent (world-wide) are hostage to near idiotic (as in: non-adapted) political arrangements.

kubanczyk 5y ago
I can certainly agree with the diagnosis! Putting things naively, do you think the primary call to action should be "change the law" or "change the politicians"? Wasting resources and human talent is not a problem in itself. It's suboptimal, that's it. You can interpret it simply as taming the whirlwind so that it doesn't disintegrate the structure and law, putting us back to pre-industrial times. While that aspect of paralysis is mild, the paralysis in response to the environmental changes, to a next pandemic, to virtually any possible physical danger (whether it's an asteroid or an AGI...) is the problem to solve now. Our system needs to be much much quicker when handling dangers on a global scale. I mean, it would be so embarrassing as a civilization to fall over some trivial bump.
- streamofdigits 5y ago
  the first impulse would be to replace the "crooks" with "untouchables". but we know this does not work. if the system is poorly designed it will eventually engulf and corrupt or mislead anybody, no matter their moral fabric the fallback, then, is to "change the system" (eg constitutional law changes, new checks and balances etc) so that people do the "right thing" by default sounds great (even if a tall order). except this won't work either. there is no real "system" to change. you can write perfect laws and people will simply agree to ignore or subvert them if they are not internalized. we are after all just a collection of homo sapiens with our transient and volatile mental states if I had a magic wand with a single spell I'd change the teachers. and hope that the generation they educate grows and takes control fast enough...

kubanczyk 5y ago

I can certainly agree with the diagnosis! Putting things naively, do you think the primary call to action should be "change the law" or "change the politicians"? Wasting resources and human talent is not a problem in itself. It's suboptimal, that's it. You can interpret it simply as taming the whirlwind so that it doesn't disintegrate the structure and law, putting us back to pre-industrial times. While that aspect of paralysis is mild, the paralysis in response to the environmental changes, to a next pandemic, to virtually any possible physical danger (whether it's an asteroid or an AGI...) is the problem to solve now. Our system needs to be much much quicker when handling dangers on a global scale. I mean, it would be so embarrassing as a civilization to fall over some trivial bump.

streamofdigits 5y ago
the first impulse would be to replace the "crooks" with "untouchables". but we know this does not work. if the system is poorly designed it will eventually engulf and corrupt or mislead anybody, no matter their moral fabric the fallback, then, is to "change the system" (eg constitutional law changes, new checks and balances etc) so that people do the "right thing" by default sounds great (even if a tall order). except this won't work either. there is no real "system" to change. you can write perfect laws and people will simply agree to ignore or subvert them if they are not internalized. we are after all just a collection of homo sapiens with our transient and volatile mental states if I had a magic wand with a single spell I'd change the teachers. and hope that the generation they educate grows and takes control fast enough...