5 ms·

if you swap the "left" and "right" labels you comment will be just as true (or false, depending on whom you ask). NYU has very strong reputation in hard scienc

if you swap the "left" and "right" labels you comment will be just as true (or false, depending on whom you ask). NYU has very strong reputation in hard sciences but their social studies are hopelessly left-leaning and probably as far from neutral as Taliban studies on women's rights.

zepto 5y ago
> if you swap the "left" and "right" labels you comment will be just as true (or false, depending on whom you ask). I don’t think this is true. It also misses the point I was making. The NYT is hopelessly left leaning, but they don’t generally report straight up falsehoods. Rather they construct biased narratives out of true facts. Contrast that with fox.
- BoHerfIIIJrEsq 5y ago
  Let's say I grant you this generalization (it seems like it could be true to me). Then it's not really the NYT vs Fox, is it? Doesn't sheer quantity matter? What fraction of the media (say, the stuff you're likely to see on Google News) is "left" vs "right"? In other words, the suggestion is that the right lies outright, whereas the left lies via omission and cherry-picking to concoct stories. OK -- doesn't it matter that the left has, I don't know, 85% of the market share (that's what the tech giants endlessly blast out)?
  - asxd 5y ago
    I think the debate here was merely on misinformation, so to be honest I'd say market share doesn't necessarily apply here. You might rightfully say that weaving a biased narrative out of truths could also be labeled misinformation, but in my own personal opinion I'd rather try and unravel that narrative than try to unravel a narrative based on straight up lies.
    - guerrilla 5y ago
      Also, some of the narrative weaving can be done in good faith or unknowingly (e.g. baively being somones interpretation for which they knoe of no alternative) but lying is never in good faith or accidental.
  - guerrilla 5y ago
    > OK -- doesn't it matter that the left has, I don't know, 85% of the market share (that's what the tech giants endlessly blast out)? This isn't true. Fox News has been rated the most watched network many times including in July. According to a previous post here on HN, a lot of highest trending stuff spread on FB is right-wing. Also almost all US media is to the right of almost all European media (notable exceptions including Poland and Hungary.)
    - BoHerfIIIJrEsq 5y ago
      Well, I grant it's hard to quantify. It was recently reported that Fox had more viewers than CNN and MSNBC combined, but that's TV. On the internet, it's a very different story. If you block left-leaning news outlets on Apple News, your front page may contain nothing at all. Google News has a permanent section devoted to leftist "fact checkers". Their "beyond the headlines" section currently displays the NYT, BBC, Vox, Guardian, Atlantic, WSJ, Slate, Verge, and AP.
      - guerrilla 5y ago
        WSJ is owned by Murdoch and is pretty far right-wing even for the US, but like I said, all of that is considered right-wing or "centrist" to be very charitable (although obviously not conservative except the WSJ) in Europe and to anyone who actually calls themselves a leftists (or a political sciensit.)
        temp8964 5y ago
        How is wsj far-right? You are totally making things up. https://www.allsides.com/media-bias/media-bias-chart https://www.allsides.com/media-bias/media-bias-chart
        guerrilla 5y ago
        Your own graph shoes that they are right wing. I said pretty far to the right which obviously they are, not "far-right."
- andyxor 5y ago
  The whole idea of investigating "spread of misinformation" in the current politicized climate is unscientific at best and agenda-driven at worse. You've got to take a political stand to declare something "misinformation".
  - temp8964 5y ago
    I don't think so. If you openly and intentially select creditable data-driven academic researchers from both sides of political spectrum (or having an established record of being politically neutral), you can run a research study close to politically neutral.
- fortran77 5y ago
  The NY Times isn't "far left." Let's compare "Mother Jones" to "Fox"
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - lupire 5y ago
    That's kind of the point. The "mainstream right" is far right.

zepto 5y ago

> if you swap the "left" and "right" labels you comment will be just as true (or false, depending on whom you ask). I don’t think this is true. It also misses the point I was making. The NYT is hopelessly left leaning, but they don’t generally report straight up falsehoods. Rather they construct biased narratives out of true facts. Contrast that with fox.

BoHerfIIIJrEsq 5y ago
Let's say I grant you this generalization (it seems like it could be true to me). Then it's not really the NYT vs Fox, is it? Doesn't sheer quantity matter? What fraction of the media (say, the stuff you're likely to see on Google News) is "left" vs "right"? In other words, the suggestion is that the right lies outright, whereas the left lies via omission and cherry-picking to concoct stories. OK -- doesn't it matter that the left has, I don't know, 85% of the market share (that's what the tech giants endlessly blast out)?
- asxd 5y ago
  I think the debate here was merely on misinformation, so to be honest I'd say market share doesn't necessarily apply here. You might rightfully say that weaving a biased narrative out of truths could also be labeled misinformation, but in my own personal opinion I'd rather try and unravel that narrative than try to unravel a narrative based on straight up lies.
  - guerrilla 5y ago
    Also, some of the narrative weaving can be done in good faith or unknowingly (e.g. baively being somones interpretation for which they knoe of no alternative) but lying is never in good faith or accidental.
- guerrilla 5y ago
  > OK -- doesn't it matter that the left has, I don't know, 85% of the market share (that's what the tech giants endlessly blast out)? This isn't true. Fox News has been rated the most watched network many times including in July. According to a previous post here on HN, a lot of highest trending stuff spread on FB is right-wing. Also almost all US media is to the right of almost all European media (notable exceptions including Poland and Hungary.)
  - BoHerfIIIJrEsq 5y ago
    Well, I grant it's hard to quantify. It was recently reported that Fox had more viewers than CNN and MSNBC combined, but that's TV. On the internet, it's a very different story. If you block left-leaning news outlets on Apple News, your front page may contain nothing at all. Google News has a permanent section devoted to leftist "fact checkers". Their "beyond the headlines" section currently displays the NYT, BBC, Vox, Guardian, Atlantic, WSJ, Slate, Verge, and AP.
    - guerrilla 5y ago
      WSJ is owned by Murdoch and is pretty far right-wing even for the US, but like I said, all of that is considered right-wing or "centrist" to be very charitable (although obviously not conservative except the WSJ) in Europe and to anyone who actually calls themselves a leftists (or a political sciensit.)
      - temp8964 5y ago
        How is wsj far-right? You are totally making things up. https://www.allsides.com/media-bias/media-bias-chart https://www.allsides.com/media-bias/media-bias-chart
        guerrilla 5y ago
        Your own graph shoes that they are right wing. I said pretty far to the right which obviously they are, not "far-right."
andyxor 5y ago
The whole idea of investigating "spread of misinformation" in the current politicized climate is unscientific at best and agenda-driven at worse. You've got to take a political stand to declare something "misinformation".
- temp8964 5y ago
  I don't think so. If you openly and intentially select creditable data-driven academic researchers from both sides of political spectrum (or having an established record of being politically neutral), you can run a research study close to politically neutral.
fortran77 5y ago
The NY Times isn't "far left." Let's compare "Mother Jones" to "Fox"
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- lupire 5y ago
  That's kind of the point. The "mainstream right" is far right.