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>linking to libadwaita is an explicit decision to use the Adwaita theme Yes, linking to Adwaita is a decision to use Adwaita theme by default, because the widg

>linking to libadwaita is an explicit decision to use the Adwaita theme Yes, linking to Adwaita is a decision to use Adwaita theme by default, because the widgets in it are intentionally designed to work well with only with those specific colors, spacings, fonts, etc. But the app developer can override that afterwards if they have additional CSS. >every distribution shipping GNOME is forced to consent to having Adwaita as the theme Can you show where this quote came from? This makes no sense and I do not understand why someone would say this at all, any distribution shipping GNOME is free to modify the Adwaita theme or ship another theme, as Ubuntu is already doing for some time. GNOME developers may grumble about it and write more letters like this but they cannot stop them from doing that, no one is "forced to consent" to anything as this is all open source code. If you notice from the letter, the concern is actually the opposite, it's about about downstream forcing their untested themes on some GNOME apps without concern for the app developer, which is resulting in bugs and unhappy users. >The only way a user's own custom theme will be used if a proposed opt-in flag is added to libadwaita No, this is incorrect. The opt-in flag is about the platform theme. The change in libadwaita does not affect the user's theme. User's theme still has top priority over all other CSS, this is documented: https://docs.gtk.org/gtk4/class.CssProvider.html https://docs.gtk.org/gtk4/class.CssProvider.html And you can in fact verify that it works if you have the latest libadwaita from git master. I would like to again emphasize that even if this weren't the case, the code is open source and it would still be quite trivial to comment out some lines and install your own CSS, and that is the worst case scenario. So realistically there is little reason for alarm.

ayushnix 5y ago
> Can you show where this quote came from? https://files.catbox.moe/p5f920.png https://files.catbox.moe/p5f920.png https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/libadwaita/-/issues/259#note_1262327 https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/libadwaita/-/issues/259#note_... I was mistaken to think this quote came from a GNOME dev but then again, a GNOME dev (Benjamin Otte) does seems to have agreed with this so I guess it's all the same. > So realistically there is little reason for alarm. I hope you're right and that my fears are a misunderstanding. I have basically started removing any software that has anything to do with GNOME, including Flatpak and Flatseal, which I was happily using until now, because there's no telling what kind of control will be taken away from me. Again, I hope I'm wrong and this is all a misunderstanding on my end as you're saying.
- lavabiopsy 5y ago
  I think you missed the last paragraph of that comment which also mentions GTK apps applying their own themes, which is still an option. If you know a developer who wants to do this then let me know and I can walk them through the process. I don't understand why you would start reactively uninstalling apps or control would be taken away, I don't believe any of them have gone closed source. If the app is open source then no control can be taken away from you, you can just grab the source and inject your CSS. Again would be happy to walk you through this process, but that would be in the worst case scenario, right now and for the foreseeable future it's unnecessary as you can still use the method I previously described with setting your user theme. It also doesn't really make sense to me to uninstall some app because of some theoretical bad thing that could happen in the future, if you take that view then you would have to uninstall everything it seems, because there is always a possibility that developers make some decision you don't like 10 years from now when the computing landscape has changed. You can of course stay on an old version if there are some changes you don't like, the developers might grumble more and tell you to upgrade for usability and security reasons, but that's a decision you make according to your own risk factors. >Flatpak Huh? Flatpak is an API and CLI, it doesn't use GTK. The ways it's usually accessed through a GUI are GNOME Software and KDE Discover, but you don't have to use those.
  - ayushnix 5y ago
    > It also doesn't really make sense to me to uninstall some app because of some theoretical bad thing that could happen in the future In hindsight, I was perhaps being reactive and might've acted irrationally but I still believe that I should try to stay away from anything related to GNOME or GTK, if possible, simply because I don't trust GNOME/GTK developers to keep their "every preference has a cost" philosophy limited to GNOME itself. Like this, for example. https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/issues/3787 https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/issues/3787 If I'm being polite, pretty interesting comments from Clasen. Subpixel Positioning might make sense on HiDPI displays but most people still don't have them. Yes, that philosophy makes sense in some kind of apps but it isn't one should follow universally, in my opinion. Another simple example is GNOME Screenshot and Spectacle. Spectacle, in my opinion, is perhaps the best screenshot tool on Linux because it offers sensible and basic annotation tools. This is what Android does using its Markup tool on Android and Windows with its Snipping Tool. I suspect Mac has a similar offering. If I want to share a screenshot with some personal information redacted, there's no way to do that using GNOME Screenshot. Yes, I know I can find another app for doing that but that's not the point. It's the "every preference has a cost" philosophy in play again which makes some things dumbed down and deprived of sensible features when they shouldn't be. I am by no means a KDE "fan" though. I ended up uninstalling KDE fairly quickly when I tried it a few months ago. I also stand by my statement of "GNOME not really being a community project" after reading the blog posts by Tobias. There is little room for disagreement besides what the "GNOME way" says and little care for downstream. Thanks for your time though. I appreciate how you've been patiently replying to my comments. Most people I talk to in FOSS communities generally aren't even receptive to discussions when its about disagreement. Everything is either the user's fault or his hardware is faulty.

ayushnix 5y ago

> Can you show where this quote came from? https://files.catbox.moe/p5f920.png https://files.catbox.moe/p5f920.png https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/libadwaita/-/issues/259#note_1262327 https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/libadwaita/-/issues/259#note_... I was mistaken to think this quote came from a GNOME dev but then again, a GNOME dev (Benjamin Otte) does seems to have agreed with this so I guess it's all the same. > So realistically there is little reason for alarm. I hope you're right and that my fears are a misunderstanding. I have basically started removing any software that has anything to do with GNOME, including Flatpak and Flatseal, which I was happily using until now, because there's no telling what kind of control will be taken away from me. Again, I hope I'm wrong and this is all a misunderstanding on my end as you're saying.

lavabiopsy 5y ago
I think you missed the last paragraph of that comment which also mentions GTK apps applying their own themes, which is still an option. If you know a developer who wants to do this then let me know and I can walk them through the process. I don't understand why you would start reactively uninstalling apps or control would be taken away, I don't believe any of them have gone closed source. If the app is open source then no control can be taken away from you, you can just grab the source and inject your CSS. Again would be happy to walk you through this process, but that would be in the worst case scenario, right now and for the foreseeable future it's unnecessary as you can still use the method I previously described with setting your user theme. It also doesn't really make sense to me to uninstall some app because of some theoretical bad thing that could happen in the future, if you take that view then you would have to uninstall everything it seems, because there is always a possibility that developers make some decision you don't like 10 years from now when the computing landscape has changed. You can of course stay on an old version if there are some changes you don't like, the developers might grumble more and tell you to upgrade for usability and security reasons, but that's a decision you make according to your own risk factors. >Flatpak Huh? Flatpak is an API and CLI, it doesn't use GTK. The ways it's usually accessed through a GUI are GNOME Software and KDE Discover, but you don't have to use those.
- ayushnix 5y ago
  > It also doesn't really make sense to me to uninstall some app because of some theoretical bad thing that could happen in the future In hindsight, I was perhaps being reactive and might've acted irrationally but I still believe that I should try to stay away from anything related to GNOME or GTK, if possible, simply because I don't trust GNOME/GTK developers to keep their "every preference has a cost" philosophy limited to GNOME itself. Like this, for example. https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/issues/3787 https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/issues/3787 If I'm being polite, pretty interesting comments from Clasen. Subpixel Positioning might make sense on HiDPI displays but most people still don't have them. Yes, that philosophy makes sense in some kind of apps but it isn't one should follow universally, in my opinion. Another simple example is GNOME Screenshot and Spectacle. Spectacle, in my opinion, is perhaps the best screenshot tool on Linux because it offers sensible and basic annotation tools. This is what Android does using its Markup tool on Android and Windows with its Snipping Tool. I suspect Mac has a similar offering. If I want to share a screenshot with some personal information redacted, there's no way to do that using GNOME Screenshot. Yes, I know I can find another app for doing that but that's not the point. It's the "every preference has a cost" philosophy in play again which makes some things dumbed down and deprived of sensible features when they shouldn't be. I am by no means a KDE "fan" though. I ended up uninstalling KDE fairly quickly when I tried it a few months ago. I also stand by my statement of "GNOME not really being a community project" after reading the blog posts by Tobias. There is little room for disagreement besides what the "GNOME way" says and little care for downstream. Thanks for your time though. I appreciate how you've been patiently replying to my comments. Most people I talk to in FOSS communities generally aren't even receptive to discussions when its about disagreement. Everything is either the user's fault or his hardware is faulty.