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> Also, what you have told the GTkeddit developer was very likely not correct, users can still load their own theme and libadwaita will not override that. The

> Also, what you have told the GTkeddit developer was very likely not correct, users can still load their own theme and libadwaita will not override that. The libadwaita change is about the platform theme, not the user's theme, the user theme still has top priority. Haven't Clasen and several other devs on the issue tracker you and I linked above clearly has statements like "linking to libadwaita is an explicit decision to use the Adwaita theme" and "core GNOME applications linking to libadwaita will then thereby require that every distribution shipping GNOME is forced to consent to having Adwaita as the theme". The only way a user's own custom theme will be used if a proposed opt-in flag is added to libadwaita (doesn't seem like it will be, recoloring API is being favored) and app developers use that flag. Correct me if I'm wrong in this point and I'd be happy to go back and talk to the GTkeddit developer again but from what he independently tested, he seems to have reached the same result as I think.

lavabiopsy 5y ago
>linking to libadwaita is an explicit decision to use the Adwaita theme Yes, linking to Adwaita is a decision to use Adwaita theme by default, because the widgets in it are intentionally designed to work well with only with those specific colors, spacings, fonts, etc. But the app developer can override that afterwards if they have additional CSS. >every distribution shipping GNOME is forced to consent to having Adwaita as the theme Can you show where this quote came from? This makes no sense and I do not understand why someone would say this at all, any distribution shipping GNOME is free to modify the Adwaita theme or ship another theme, as Ubuntu is already doing for some time. GNOME developers may grumble about it and write more letters like this but they cannot stop them from doing that, no one is "forced to consent" to anything as this is all open source code. If you notice from the letter, the concern is actually the opposite, it's about about downstream forcing their untested themes on some GNOME apps without concern for the app developer, which is resulting in bugs and unhappy users. >The only way a user's own custom theme will be used if a proposed opt-in flag is added to libadwaita No, this is incorrect. The opt-in flag is about the platform theme. The change in libadwaita does not affect the user's theme. User's theme still has top priority over all other CSS, this is documented: https://docs.gtk.org/gtk4/class.CssProvider.html https://docs.gtk.org/gtk4/class.CssProvider.html And you can in fact verify that it works if you have the latest libadwaita from git master. I would like to again emphasize that even if this weren't the case, the code is open source and it would still be quite trivial to comment out some lines and install your own CSS, and that is the worst case scenario. So realistically there is little reason for alarm.
- ayushnix 5y ago
  > Can you show where this quote came from? https://files.catbox.moe/p5f920.png https://files.catbox.moe/p5f920.png https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/libadwaita/-/issues/259#note_1262327 https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/libadwaita/-/issues/259#note_... I was mistaken to think this quote came from a GNOME dev but then again, a GNOME dev (Benjamin Otte) does seems to have agreed with this so I guess it's all the same. > So realistically there is little reason for alarm. I hope you're right and that my fears are a misunderstanding. I have basically started removing any software that has anything to do with GNOME, including Flatpak and Flatseal, which I was happily using until now, because there's no telling what kind of control will be taken away from me. Again, I hope I'm wrong and this is all a misunderstanding on my end as you're saying.
  - lavabiopsy 5y ago
    I think you missed the last paragraph of that comment which also mentions GTK apps applying their own themes, which is still an option. If you know a developer who wants to do this then let me know and I can walk them through the process. I don't understand why you would start reactively uninstalling apps or control would be taken away, I don't believe any of them have gone closed source. If the app is open source then no control can be taken away from you, you can just grab the source and inject your CSS. Again would be happy to walk you through this process, but that would be in the worst case scenario, right now and for the foreseeable future it's unnecessary as you can still use the method I previously described with setting your user theme. It also doesn't really make sense to me to uninstall some app because of some theoretical bad thing that could happen in the future, if you take that view then you would have to uninstall everything it seems, because there is always a possibility that developers make some decision you don't like 10 years from now when the computing landscape has changed. You can of course stay on an old version if there are some changes you don't like, the developers might grumble more and tell you to upgrade for usability and security reasons, but that's a decision you make according to your own risk factors. >Flatpak Huh? Flatpak is an API and CLI, it doesn't use GTK. The ways it's usually accessed through a GUI are GNOME Software and KDE Discover, but you don't have to use those.

lavabiopsy 5y ago

>linking to libadwaita is an explicit decision to use the Adwaita theme Yes, linking to Adwaita is a decision to use Adwaita theme by default, because the widgets in it are intentionally designed to work well with only with those specific colors, spacings, fonts, etc. But the app developer can override that afterwards if they have additional CSS. >every distribution shipping GNOME is forced to consent to having Adwaita as the theme Can you show where this quote came from? This makes no sense and I do not understand why someone would say this at all, any distribution shipping GNOME is free to modify the Adwaita theme or ship another theme, as Ubuntu is already doing for some time. GNOME developers may grumble about it and write more letters like this but they cannot stop them from doing that, no one is "forced to consent" to anything as this is all open source code. If you notice from the letter, the concern is actually the opposite, it's about about downstream forcing their untested themes on some GNOME apps without concern for the app developer, which is resulting in bugs and unhappy users. >The only way a user's own custom theme will be used if a proposed opt-in flag is added to libadwaita No, this is incorrect. The opt-in flag is about the platform theme. The change in libadwaita does not affect the user's theme. User's theme still has top priority over all other CSS, this is documented: https://docs.gtk.org/gtk4/class.CssProvider.html https://docs.gtk.org/gtk4/class.CssProvider.html And you can in fact verify that it works if you have the latest libadwaita from git master. I would like to again emphasize that even if this weren't the case, the code is open source and it would still be quite trivial to comment out some lines and install your own CSS, and that is the worst case scenario. So realistically there is little reason for alarm.

ayushnix 5y ago
> Can you show where this quote came from? https://files.catbox.moe/p5f920.png https://files.catbox.moe/p5f920.png https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/libadwaita/-/issues/259#note_1262327 https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/libadwaita/-/issues/259#note_... I was mistaken to think this quote came from a GNOME dev but then again, a GNOME dev (Benjamin Otte) does seems to have agreed with this so I guess it's all the same. > So realistically there is little reason for alarm. I hope you're right and that my fears are a misunderstanding. I have basically started removing any software that has anything to do with GNOME, including Flatpak and Flatseal, which I was happily using until now, because there's no telling what kind of control will be taken away from me. Again, I hope I'm wrong and this is all a misunderstanding on my end as you're saying.
- lavabiopsy 5y ago
  I think you missed the last paragraph of that comment which also mentions GTK apps applying their own themes, which is still an option. If you know a developer who wants to do this then let me know and I can walk them through the process. I don't understand why you would start reactively uninstalling apps or control would be taken away, I don't believe any of them have gone closed source. If the app is open source then no control can be taken away from you, you can just grab the source and inject your CSS. Again would be happy to walk you through this process, but that would be in the worst case scenario, right now and for the foreseeable future it's unnecessary as you can still use the method I previously described with setting your user theme. It also doesn't really make sense to me to uninstall some app because of some theoretical bad thing that could happen in the future, if you take that view then you would have to uninstall everything it seems, because there is always a possibility that developers make some decision you don't like 10 years from now when the computing landscape has changed. You can of course stay on an old version if there are some changes you don't like, the developers might grumble more and tell you to upgrade for usability and security reasons, but that's a decision you make according to your own risk factors. >Flatpak Huh? Flatpak is an API and CLI, it doesn't use GTK. The ways it's usually accessed through a GUI are GNOME Software and KDE Discover, but you don't have to use those.