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That isn't an option in this part of the UK. There are almost no jobs. And the schools there are not good (and university isn't really an option for these peopl

That isn't an option in this part of the UK. There are almost no jobs. And the schools there are not good (and university isn't really an option for these people anyway, even if you get the grades). It also isn't easy to move anywhere, there is nowhere to move to, housing is short in any area people want to live. For reference, Middlesbrough is one of the most deprived places in Europe (inc. Eastern Europe). I know people who grew up round there, I have been there quite a bit...it is unlike anything you see in most developed countries (the only place I have ever been like this was slum areas in Milan, and rural areas of Eastern Europe). Even if schools had the teachers (most of them just don't teach some subjects, like computer science, at all...they don't have the staff, no-one will live there), bullying is off the charts, sexual violence against girls in school is an epidemic, teachers sexually abusing students is an epidemic...although hopefully ending...I would say it is close to impossible for most people in this situation to lift themselves out (particularly given the parents, not just school). I know people who went to schools around here, I know people who teach in these kind of areas in the UK...these places aren't developed country. Btw, if you grow up in an urban environment in the South in the UK, even if the area is heavily impoverished...your school is top-tier. The issue is complex.

blibble 5y ago
this reads like something out of the Guardian I grew up in one of the poorest parts of England (poorer than Middlesbrough), attended a comprehensive (non-selective) school, and had no problem getting into a top UK university (post tuition-fees) as did almost all of my friends, all of whom went to the same crappy school in the same crappy area, and are all now gainfully employed the UK is not Afghanistan
- spaetzleesser 5y ago
  You have to keep in mind that not all people are intelligent enough to be admitted to a top university. It’s not a path anybody can pursue.
  - blibble 5y ago
    hence including more than myself in the anecdote growing up in one of the poorest parts of the country: I know of no-one who wanted to attend that couldn't
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - PeterisP 5y ago
    Perhaps the whole notion that there exists some path to financial freedom that anybody can pursue is just misleading wishful thinking. There are some paths that lead to financial freedom, but most of them have some barriers that not everybody will overcome; and universally applicable suggestions (like the financial literacy suggestion) may be helpful and make people a bit less poor, but they are not going to have a sufficiently large effect to lift someone out of poverty and into financial freedom; that will need a bit more and that "a bit more" might not be feasible for all people.
- hogFeast 5y ago
  Okay, and how do you explain the fact that the statistics don't bear this out? The North East has the second-lowest proportion of young people attending university in England. Everything that I said is also based on data. There are stats on who is attending uni, there are stats on sexual violence in schools, there are stats on bullying. What is surprising is that you imply that my account is not representative in some way, and then say that I am wrong because you did it...how does this make sense to you? What you did makes no difference. And, unless you are more specific about where you came from, it makes no difference because, as I took great care to mention, the issue is not about poverty. There is nowhere else poorer than Middlesbrough in the UK but the issue is that there is nowhere else with lower opportunities for you in life. So this is a problem that is specific to regions, it is largely non-existent below Birmingham. In all of these areas which have poverty, there is high social mobility...this is least true in the North-East, some places along the East coast, some places in the Midlands, many places in Wales and Scotland. Also, I think it is truly tragic when someone points out things like bullying in schools and sexual violence against children for someone to say..."Oh, you must be a Guardian reader"...is it only people who read the Guardian who care about children being raped? Well...at least we know your views on the subject. I bet the moral high ground feels great. University was wasted on you.
  - blibble 5y ago
    not sure I want to spend time responding to someone who resorts to "you don't care about child rape" classy
    - hogFeast 5y ago
      Not sure I want to respond to someone who suggests that only people who read the Guardian care about child rape. classy But yes, take the moral high ground...you are showing everyone how smart you are.
PeterisP 5y ago
While not everyone from such a disadvantaged background is likely to succeed, those who will succeed will do so through doing the things you assert are hard, perhaps moving out to other areas, perhaps getting good education, perhaps getting marketable skills outside of formal schooling; and for those who will fail at this, no amount of financial literacy will be sufficient to lift them out of poverty if they can't get a job providing decent income.

blibble 5y ago

this reads like something out of the Guardian I grew up in one of the poorest parts of England (poorer than Middlesbrough), attended a comprehensive (non-selective) school, and had no problem getting into a top UK university (post tuition-fees) as did almost all of my friends, all of whom went to the same crappy school in the same crappy area, and are all now gainfully employed the UK is not Afghanistan

spaetzleesser 5y ago
You have to keep in mind that not all people are intelligent enough to be admitted to a top university. It’s not a path anybody can pursue.
- blibble 5y ago
  hence including more than myself in the anecdote growing up in one of the poorest parts of the country: I know of no-one who wanted to attend that couldn't
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- PeterisP 5y ago
  Perhaps the whole notion that there exists some path to financial freedom that anybody can pursue is just misleading wishful thinking. There are some paths that lead to financial freedom, but most of them have some barriers that not everybody will overcome; and universally applicable suggestions (like the financial literacy suggestion) may be helpful and make people a bit less poor, but they are not going to have a sufficiently large effect to lift someone out of poverty and into financial freedom; that will need a bit more and that "a bit more" might not be feasible for all people.
hogFeast 5y ago
Okay, and how do you explain the fact that the statistics don't bear this out? The North East has the second-lowest proportion of young people attending university in England. Everything that I said is also based on data. There are stats on who is attending uni, there are stats on sexual violence in schools, there are stats on bullying. What is surprising is that you imply that my account is not representative in some way, and then say that I am wrong because you did it...how does this make sense to you? What you did makes no difference. And, unless you are more specific about where you came from, it makes no difference because, as I took great care to mention, the issue is not about poverty. There is nowhere else poorer than Middlesbrough in the UK but the issue is that there is nowhere else with lower opportunities for you in life. So this is a problem that is specific to regions, it is largely non-existent below Birmingham. In all of these areas which have poverty, there is high social mobility...this is least true in the North-East, some places along the East coast, some places in the Midlands, many places in Wales and Scotland. Also, I think it is truly tragic when someone points out things like bullying in schools and sexual violence against children for someone to say..."Oh, you must be a Guardian reader"...is it only people who read the Guardian who care about children being raped? Well...at least we know your views on the subject. I bet the moral high ground feels great. University was wasted on you.
- blibble 5y ago
  not sure I want to spend time responding to someone who resorts to "you don't care about child rape" classy
  - hogFeast 5y ago
    Not sure I want to respond to someone who suggests that only people who read the Guardian care about child rape. classy But yes, take the moral high ground...you are showing everyone how smart you are.

PeterisP 5y ago

While not everyone from such a disadvantaged background is likely to succeed, those who will succeed will do so through doing the things you assert are hard, perhaps moving out to other areas, perhaps getting good education, perhaps getting marketable skills outside of formal schooling; and for those who will fail at this, no amount of financial literacy will be sufficient to lift them out of poverty if they can't get a job providing decent income.