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If people need money so badly why wouldn’t they just train for jobs with high paying salaries as early as they can? Education is the passport.

by xwdv 5y ago

Animats 5y ago
Education is now a net lose for a sizable fraction of the people who go to college on credit.
- gruez 5y ago
  Source? The math does not check out with the average student loan balance on graduation of $30k[1], and lifetime earning difference of $400k+ between high school degree and associate's degree[2] [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/20/how-much-the-average-student-loan-borrower-owes-when-they-graduate.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/20/how-much-the-average-student... [2] https://www.aplu.org/projects-and-initiatives/college-costs-tuition-and-financial-aid/publicuvalues/employment-earnings.html https://www.aplu.org/projects-and-initiatives/college-costs-...
  - Animats 5y ago
    Goldman Sachs, 2015.[1] "Graduates studying lower paying majors such as arts, education and psychology face the highest risk of a negative return." [1] https://money.cnn.com/2015/12/09/news/economy/college-not-worth-it-goldman/index.html https://money.cnn.com/2015/12/09/news/economy/college-not-wo...
    - xwdv 5y ago
      Your original claim is disingenuous. People who go to college and get high value degrees come out ahead. You should only pursue a worthless degree if you are independently wealthy.
joe_91 5y ago
It's unfortunate but most of the time people tend to imitate what the people in their social/peer group are doing. That's partly why parents want their kids going to good schools - they'll pick up good habits from those around them. If your friends are all talking about investing and saving to buy a house chances are you'll start looking into it too. I know its not an excuse either but people want to be part of a group more than anything and if that group were to mock you for your financial literacy or none of them are bothering to be financially savy I can see why many people are failing to grasp some of these concepts. In my opinion financial literacy should be promoted via movie stars/ athletes. The very people many poor people look up too. I know Kevin Heart the actor was saying that this is something he really thinks would change a lot of poor peoples lives for the better and he's helped roll out campaigns to try and teach people some financial skills: https://hartofitall.chase.com/index.htm https://hartofitall.chase.com/index.htm
- bluGill 5y ago
  Problem is the wealthy can't act poor. When you have a ton of money putting 10k in a designer purse you use once isn't a factor to your net worth, so why not.
hogFeast 5y ago
That isn't an option in this part of the UK. There are almost no jobs. And the schools there are not good (and university isn't really an option for these people anyway, even if you get the grades). It also isn't easy to move anywhere, there is nowhere to move to, housing is short in any area people want to live. For reference, Middlesbrough is one of the most deprived places in Europe (inc. Eastern Europe). I know people who grew up round there, I have been there quite a bit...it is unlike anything you see in most developed countries (the only place I have ever been like this was slum areas in Milan, and rural areas of Eastern Europe). Even if schools had the teachers (most of them just don't teach some subjects, like computer science, at all...they don't have the staff, no-one will live there), bullying is off the charts, sexual violence against girls in school is an epidemic, teachers sexually abusing students is an epidemic...although hopefully ending...I would say it is close to impossible for most people in this situation to lift themselves out (particularly given the parents, not just school). I know people who went to schools around here, I know people who teach in these kind of areas in the UK...these places aren't developed country. Btw, if you grow up in an urban environment in the South in the UK, even if the area is heavily impoverished...your school is top-tier. The issue is complex.
- blibble 5y ago
  this reads like something out of the Guardian I grew up in one of the poorest parts of England (poorer than Middlesbrough), attended a comprehensive (non-selective) school, and had no problem getting into a top UK university (post tuition-fees) as did almost all of my friends, all of whom went to the same crappy school in the same crappy area, and are all now gainfully employed the UK is not Afghanistan
  - spaetzleesser 5y ago
    You have to keep in mind that not all people are intelligent enough to be admitted to a top university. It’s not a path anybody can pursue.
    - blibble 5y ago
      hence including more than myself in the anecdote growing up in one of the poorest parts of the country: I know of no-one who wanted to attend that couldn't
spaetzleesser 5y ago
Pretty much any advice that has the word “just” in it was given by people who doesn’t understand the situation. This applies to the situation here. And it also applies to work where you maybe have been working on figuring out a problem for weeks and somebody looks for five minutes and asks “why don’t you just do X?”

If people need money so badly why wouldn’t they just train for jobs with high paying salaries as early as they can? Education is the passport.

by xwdv 5y ago

If people need money so badly why wouldn’t they just train for jobs with high paying salaries as early as they can? Education is the passport.

Animats 5y ago

Education is now a net lose for a sizable fraction of the people who go to college on credit.

gruez 5y ago
Source? The math does not check out with the average student loan balance on graduation of $30k[1], and lifetime earning difference of $400k+ between high school degree and associate's degree[2] [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/20/how-much-the-average-student-loan-borrower-owes-when-they-graduate.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/20/how-much-the-average-student... [2] https://www.aplu.org/projects-and-initiatives/college-costs-tuition-and-financial-aid/publicuvalues/employment-earnings.html https://www.aplu.org/projects-and-initiatives/college-costs-...
- Animats 5y ago
  Goldman Sachs, 2015.[1] "Graduates studying lower paying majors such as arts, education and psychology face the highest risk of a negative return." [1] https://money.cnn.com/2015/12/09/news/economy/college-not-worth-it-goldman/index.html https://money.cnn.com/2015/12/09/news/economy/college-not-wo...
  - xwdv 5y ago
    Your original claim is disingenuous. People who go to college and get high value degrees come out ahead. You should only pursue a worthless degree if you are independently wealthy.

joe_91 5y ago

It's unfortunate but most of the time people tend to imitate what the people in their social/peer group are doing. That's partly why parents want their kids going to good schools - they'll pick up good habits from those around them. If your friends are all talking about investing and saving to buy a house chances are you'll start looking into it too. I know its not an excuse either but people want to be part of a group more than anything and if that group were to mock you for your financial literacy or none of them are bothering to be financially savy I can see why many people are failing to grasp some of these concepts. In my opinion financial literacy should be promoted via movie stars/ athletes. The very people many poor people look up too. I know Kevin Heart the actor was saying that this is something he really thinks would change a lot of poor peoples lives for the better and he's helped roll out campaigns to try and teach people some financial skills: https://hartofitall.chase.com/index.htm https://hartofitall.chase.com/index.htm

bluGill 5y ago
Problem is the wealthy can't act poor. When you have a ton of money putting 10k in a designer purse you use once isn't a factor to your net worth, so why not.

hogFeast 5y ago

That isn't an option in this part of the UK. There are almost no jobs. And the schools there are not good (and university isn't really an option for these people anyway, even if you get the grades). It also isn't easy to move anywhere, there is nowhere to move to, housing is short in any area people want to live. For reference, Middlesbrough is one of the most deprived places in Europe (inc. Eastern Europe). I know people who grew up round there, I have been there quite a bit...it is unlike anything you see in most developed countries (the only place I have ever been like this was slum areas in Milan, and rural areas of Eastern Europe). Even if schools had the teachers (most of them just don't teach some subjects, like computer science, at all...they don't have the staff, no-one will live there), bullying is off the charts, sexual violence against girls in school is an epidemic, teachers sexually abusing students is an epidemic...although hopefully ending...I would say it is close to impossible for most people in this situation to lift themselves out (particularly given the parents, not just school). I know people who went to schools around here, I know people who teach in these kind of areas in the UK...these places aren't developed country. Btw, if you grow up in an urban environment in the South in the UK, even if the area is heavily impoverished...your school is top-tier. The issue is complex.

blibble 5y ago
this reads like something out of the Guardian I grew up in one of the poorest parts of England (poorer than Middlesbrough), attended a comprehensive (non-selective) school, and had no problem getting into a top UK university (post tuition-fees) as did almost all of my friends, all of whom went to the same crappy school in the same crappy area, and are all now gainfully employed the UK is not Afghanistan
- spaetzleesser 5y ago
  You have to keep in mind that not all people are intelligent enough to be admitted to a top university. It’s not a path anybody can pursue.
  - blibble 5y ago
    hence including more than myself in the anecdote growing up in one of the poorest parts of the country: I know of no-one who wanted to attend that couldn't

spaetzleesser 5y ago

Pretty much any advice that has the word “just” in it was given by people who doesn’t understand the situation. This applies to the situation here. And it also applies to work where you maybe have been working on figuring out a problem for weeks and somebody looks for five minutes and asks “why don’t you just do X?”