31 ms·

Why? What would be different for the customer? The tip would just be rolled into the price of the service to amount to the same number, and quality of service

by dudul 5y ago

Why? What would be different for the customer? The tip would just be rolled into the price of the service to amount to the same number, and quality of service would probably go down. Employees would also be taxed on the "tip" (which would now be included in their base salary). So what would really be the benefit? And I'm not trying to be dismissive at all. Coming from Europe I also thought initially that tipping was really weird, but after living with it for a decade+ I got used to it and I'm really curious as to why we should stop doing it.

tayo42 5y ago
The experience and price would be consistent. I would know what I'm paying every time instead of trying to figure out what the extra 20% is or try to judge based off the items. Its much nicer going to restaurants out side of the country because you can just pay. There's no worrying about if I'm tipping right or enough or judging the service. Also covid and those ipad paying terminals have turned every job into a tip job. Every cashier wants a tip now. And they ask you if you want to tip becasue no one can touch the terminals. Which is awkward to say no to. I see/hear people leaving ridiculous tips for take out. I had one terminal for take out not have a "no tip" option. I had to manually type in $0.
Ericson2314 5y ago
It undermines the norm that employees should be paid for their labor regardless of what the customer thinks --- that they can be fired of course but not underpaid for the labor already performed It undermines the norm that businesses should pay their damn taxes. To wit, we have been able to put off discussing the non-profitability of restaurants for far too long until now. Remember, it is quite arguable that Baumol's cost disease = "progress", not by definition, but by bi-implication.
b3morales 5y ago
> Employees would also be taxed on the "tip" (which would now be included in their base salary) Tips are income already, and are taxed as such. You can get away with not reporting it if it's a few extra bucks from a jar on a counter. But if you're a "tipped employee" (and thus eligible to be paid sub-minimum wage) you report them to your employer, who then reports them to the IRS, and does tax withholding same as for wages.
- tchaffee 5y ago
  That's a naive understanding of what's really happening at most restaurants. Cash tips are almost always significantly under-reported. It's nowhere near as low as "tip jar on the counter" amounts.
  - b3morales 5y ago
    Yes, of course there is underreporting; nothing in my comment says otherwise. I'm not following your point. Since some people cheat on their taxes, they shouldn't be paid wages instead, because then they wouldn't be able to underreport as easily?
    - tchaffee 5y ago
      My point was that the under-reporting is in much larger amounts than your claim that "You can get away with not reporting it if it's a few extra bucks from a jar on a counter." > Since some people cheat on their taxes, they shouldn't be paid wages instead, because then they wouldn't be able to underreport as easily? How did you get this from what I said? I said nothing to that effect. Not even close. My point was very simple.
jzb 5y ago
Have you ever worked a job that depends on tips? Try serving a table of 20 and working your butt off and then getting no tip from the table because they "don't believe in tipping." The correlation between "great service" and getting a good tip is nowhere near a 1:1. It sucks to go to work and not know whether you're going to come home with enough money to pay your bills this week, because you might get lucky or you might get a stream of tightwads. I'd be OK with tipping if people made a baseline living wage and the tips were for service above and beyond the usual. I'm not OK with the current standard. If you can't be persuaded that it's unfair to the workers, realize it's also unfair to you as a customer. Because people can't be reliably counted upon to tip their fair share, you need to over-tip if you care about people making a fair wage. And the perception of a "fair" tip has gone up noticeably in my lifetime -- 10-15% used to be a reasonable tip when I was in my teens and early 20s. Now it's crept up to 15-20% and spread to a lot of jobs that you didn't think of for tips (e.g., somebody handing you a coffee) because wages suck.
- gregmac 5y ago
  > Now it's crept up to 15-20% and spread to a lot of jobs that you didn't think of for tips (e.g., somebody handing you a coffee) because wages suck. A couple days ago I had my oil changed at once of those drive-through places and the payment terminal had a prompt for a tip.
- danaris 5y ago
  > Now it's crept up to 15-20% and spread to a lot of jobs that you didn't think of for tips ...And, importantly, there's no way to actually know this because it's all informal. I keep hearing that some places are now expecting 25% tips, while others are still repeating the older 15-20% figure. Some transportation workers (cab drivers, hotel courtesy van drivers) expect tips—others, in exactly the same job but a different company, don't expect them or even refuse them. The informality of it all is one of the biggest reasons why tipping culture needs to die, and be replaced with actually paying workers a fair amount to start with.
beagle3 5y ago
I’ll counter with a question: do you tip when you buy a new laptop? At the grocery store when buying milk? If so, how much? If not, why not? As a customer, I want to know the real costs ahead of time. As an employee (last received tips some 30 years ago, but still…) I would like to get paid for the work I did, not that 50% of my pay would be contingent on how authentic I can make my fake smile look on a stressful day. I usually tip 20% wherever I am because I am too lazy to figure out the local culture and because I can afford to; but I seriously hate it. Visiting Germany 15 years ago was a bliss in this respect - the expectation was to round up to the nearest euro, if any tip at all. But I understand that now, at least in Berlin, 10%-20% tip has become the norm.
Ekaros 5y ago
Why shouldn't all workers and corporations report all income and pay taxes on them?

by dudul 5y ago

tayo42 5y ago

The experience and price would be consistent. I would know what I'm paying every time instead of trying to figure out what the extra 20% is or try to judge based off the items. Its much nicer going to restaurants out side of the country because you can just pay. There's no worrying about if I'm tipping right or enough or judging the service. Also covid and those ipad paying terminals have turned every job into a tip job. Every cashier wants a tip now. And they ask you if you want to tip becasue no one can touch the terminals. Which is awkward to say no to. I see/hear people leaving ridiculous tips for take out. I had one terminal for take out not have a "no tip" option. I had to manually type in $0.

Ericson2314 5y ago

It undermines the norm that employees should be paid for their labor regardless of what the customer thinks --- that they can be fired of course but not underpaid for the labor already performed It undermines the norm that businesses should pay their damn taxes. To wit, we have been able to put off discussing the non-profitability of restaurants for far too long until now. Remember, it is quite arguable that Baumol's cost disease = "progress", not by definition, but by bi-implication.

b3morales 5y ago

> Employees would also be taxed on the "tip" (which would now be included in their base salary) Tips are income already, and are taxed as such. You can get away with not reporting it if it's a few extra bucks from a jar on a counter. But if you're a "tipped employee" (and thus eligible to be paid sub-minimum wage) you report them to your employer, who then reports them to the IRS, and does tax withholding same as for wages.

tchaffee 5y ago
That's a naive understanding of what's really happening at most restaurants. Cash tips are almost always significantly under-reported. It's nowhere near as low as "tip jar on the counter" amounts.
- b3morales 5y ago
  Yes, of course there is underreporting; nothing in my comment says otherwise. I'm not following your point. Since some people cheat on their taxes, they shouldn't be paid wages instead, because then they wouldn't be able to underreport as easily?
  - tchaffee 5y ago
    My point was that the under-reporting is in much larger amounts than your claim that "You can get away with not reporting it if it's a few extra bucks from a jar on a counter." > Since some people cheat on their taxes, they shouldn't be paid wages instead, because then they wouldn't be able to underreport as easily? How did you get this from what I said? I said nothing to that effect. Not even close. My point was very simple.

jzb 5y ago

Have you ever worked a job that depends on tips? Try serving a table of 20 and working your butt off and then getting no tip from the table because they "don't believe in tipping." The correlation between "great service" and getting a good tip is nowhere near a 1:1. It sucks to go to work and not know whether you're going to come home with enough money to pay your bills this week, because you might get lucky or you might get a stream of tightwads. I'd be OK with tipping if people made a baseline living wage and the tips were for service above and beyond the usual. I'm not OK with the current standard. If you can't be persuaded that it's unfair to the workers, realize it's also unfair to you as a customer. Because people can't be reliably counted upon to tip their fair share, you need to over-tip if you care about people making a fair wage. And the perception of a "fair" tip has gone up noticeably in my lifetime -- 10-15% used to be a reasonable tip when I was in my teens and early 20s. Now it's crept up to 15-20% and spread to a lot of jobs that you didn't think of for tips (e.g., somebody handing you a coffee) because wages suck.

gregmac 5y ago
> Now it's crept up to 15-20% and spread to a lot of jobs that you didn't think of for tips (e.g., somebody handing you a coffee) because wages suck. A couple days ago I had my oil changed at once of those drive-through places and the payment terminal had a prompt for a tip.
danaris 5y ago
> Now it's crept up to 15-20% and spread to a lot of jobs that you didn't think of for tips ...And, importantly, there's no way to actually know this because it's all informal. I keep hearing that some places are now expecting 25% tips, while others are still repeating the older 15-20% figure. Some transportation workers (cab drivers, hotel courtesy van drivers) expect tips—others, in exactly the same job but a different company, don't expect them or even refuse them. The informality of it all is one of the biggest reasons why tipping culture needs to die, and be replaced with actually paying workers a fair amount to start with.

beagle3 5y ago

I’ll counter with a question: do you tip when you buy a new laptop? At the grocery store when buying milk? If so, how much? If not, why not? As a customer, I want to know the real costs ahead of time. As an employee (last received tips some 30 years ago, but still…) I would like to get paid for the work I did, not that 50% of my pay would be contingent on how authentic I can make my fake smile look on a stressful day. I usually tip 20% wherever I am because I am too lazy to figure out the local culture and because I can afford to; but I seriously hate it. Visiting Germany 15 years ago was a bliss in this respect - the expectation was to round up to the nearest euro, if any tip at all. But I understand that now, at least in Berlin, 10%-20% tip has become the norm.

Ekaros 5y ago

Why shouldn't all workers and corporations report all income and pay taxes on them?