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I’ve always had pets. I currently have two Siamese cats. I’ve accidentally stepped on them, but never intentionally hurt them. All of that is beside my point, t

I’ve always had pets. I currently have two Siamese cats. I’ve accidentally stepped on them, but never intentionally hurt them. All of that is beside my point, though. What you’re saying is clearly correct. The OP’s post supports this. I was simply telling you why studies like these are necessary: because things that can seem very real can be a case of cognitive bias. A scientist’s job is to gather evidence to reveal whether what we perceive is real or illusion.

TheOtherHobbes 5y ago
So how would a scientist prove conclusively that other humans are conscious and self-aware and not just very advanced automata that behave in ways which mimic consciousness and self-awareness? No matter how much data you collect, when you're assessing behaviour there's always a subjective interpretation of how behaviours differ and what they mean in context. Experiments like these simply disguise and hide the subjectivity. Questions of subjective experience are absolutely unprovable scientifically. You can collect correlations between stimuli and responses, but when you're done you have a table of correlations between stimuli and responses - and that's all. In practice we assume that our own states correlate with behaviours, and this also applies to other humans in a straightforward way. (It often doesn't, but it's a nice thing to believe.) From there it's an easy step to making the same mapping for certain animals, albeit with more of a stretch. But this is all unprovable, even as a hypothesis. All you can say objectively is that stimuli either match or don't match expected behaviours. That's all that's ever on the table.
- pathseeker 5y ago
  > So how would a scientist prove conclusively that other humans are conscious and self-aware and not just very advanced automata that behave in ways which mimic consciousness and self-awareness? That's not the topic we're discussing but this isn't meaningfully different from the "are we in a simulation" question. This particular question is about animals understanding the difference accidents and not, which is a super interesting question because they can't communicate. This is something you can construct experiments around and observe different behaviors.

TheOtherHobbes 5y ago

So how would a scientist prove conclusively that other humans are conscious and self-aware and not just very advanced automata that behave in ways which mimic consciousness and self-awareness? No matter how much data you collect, when you're assessing behaviour there's always a subjective interpretation of how behaviours differ and what they mean in context. Experiments like these simply disguise and hide the subjectivity. Questions of subjective experience are absolutely unprovable scientifically. You can collect correlations between stimuli and responses, but when you're done you have a table of correlations between stimuli and responses - and that's all. In practice we assume that our own states correlate with behaviours, and this also applies to other humans in a straightforward way. (It often doesn't, but it's a nice thing to believe.) From there it's an easy step to making the same mapping for certain animals, albeit with more of a stretch. But this is all unprovable, even as a hypothesis. All you can say objectively is that stimuli either match or don't match expected behaviours. That's all that's ever on the table.

pathseeker 5y ago
> So how would a scientist prove conclusively that other humans are conscious and self-aware and not just very advanced automata that behave in ways which mimic consciousness and self-awareness? That's not the topic we're discussing but this isn't meaningfully different from the "are we in a simulation" question. This particular question is about animals understanding the difference accidents and not, which is a super interesting question because they can't communicate. This is something you can construct experiments around and observe different behaviors.