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>Gervais was probably wearing clothes made of materials coming from some Asian country from factories with even worse wages Impressive, usually that type of "n

>Gervais was probably wearing clothes made of materials coming from some Asian country from factories with even worse wages Impressive, usually that type of "no u" argument needs a specific target; how much more useful it is when one can tar anyone wearing clothes with the easy certainty that somewhere in the supply chain substandard working conditions exist. Even more impressive is the snuck premise that, since Gervais is implicitly OK with his clothes (probably) originating in some sweatshop, he should be OK with the state of modern electronics in both their manufacture and their role as panopticon.

lotsofpulp 5y ago
I do not know what "no u argument" means, but that is not the argument. The argument is that even something as simple as clothing is difficult to have an economically viable business in if not sourcing from places around the world with low wages and lax labor and environmental laws. I would expect Gervais to recognize this, and understand that Tim Cook cannot be expected to have the power to completely rectify the situation regarding the inputs of the most complicated devices every made in history. >Even more impressive is the snuck premise that, since Gervais is implicitly OK with his clothes (probably) originating in some sweatshop, he should be OK with the state of modern electronics in both their manufacture and their role as panopticon. I do not agree with this interpretation of my premise due to the ill defined word "OK". It is possible to be realistic and expect solutions to take time, but that does not mean one would be "OK" with labor conditions if they did not have to be. People like to blame big corporations, politicians, other countries, anyone but themselves. But push comes to shove, where is the political support for higher fossil fuel taxes? Where is the patronizing of local businesses that use local labor to make goods? What is the purpose of asking Tim Cook about child labor when people in society destroyed every business that did not offer products at the lowest possible prices? I have known about clothing made with child labor since I was in grade school, and I am in my mid 30s, and clothes still come from Bangladesh and we (society as a whole) still buy it from there. Nobody is going to pay the premium required to make an iPhone outside of SE Asia or without the metals from Africa, it is probably not even possible.
- shkkmo 5y ago
  > I have known about clothing made with child labor since I was in grade school, and I am in my mid 30s, and clothes still come from Bangladesh There are many companies that produce and sell american made apparel. [0] I buy from several of them (on the the rare occasions when I buy more clothes.) > Where is the patronizing of local businesses that use local labor to make goods? Perhaps if you spent less time making assumptions about where other people buy their clothes and more time looking for local options you would actually be helping. The end goal should not be the end of international trade but an insistance that we do not allow international trade to facilitate abuses. The core problem is that people like you and Tim Cook brush off legitimate concerns about the practices of international trade partners as "just the way things are". Edit: I would hope that Ricky Gervais, when confronted with a question about the source of this clothing, would respond thoughfully and even consider changing where he buys his clothes. Ethical business practices may be a niche market today, but the way we expand that market share isn't by just accepting the way things are. [0] https://www.rather-be-shopping.com/blog/american-clothing-made-in-the-usa/ https://www.rather-be-shopping.com/blog/american-clothing-ma...

lotsofpulp 5y ago

I do not know what "no u argument" means, but that is not the argument. The argument is that even something as simple as clothing is difficult to have an economically viable business in if not sourcing from places around the world with low wages and lax labor and environmental laws. I would expect Gervais to recognize this, and understand that Tim Cook cannot be expected to have the power to completely rectify the situation regarding the inputs of the most complicated devices every made in history. >Even more impressive is the snuck premise that, since Gervais is implicitly OK with his clothes (probably) originating in some sweatshop, he should be OK with the state of modern electronics in both their manufacture and their role as panopticon. I do not agree with this interpretation of my premise due to the ill defined word "OK". It is possible to be realistic and expect solutions to take time, but that does not mean one would be "OK" with labor conditions if they did not have to be. People like to blame big corporations, politicians, other countries, anyone but themselves. But push comes to shove, where is the political support for higher fossil fuel taxes? Where is the patronizing of local businesses that use local labor to make goods? What is the purpose of asking Tim Cook about child labor when people in society destroyed every business that did not offer products at the lowest possible prices? I have known about clothing made with child labor since I was in grade school, and I am in my mid 30s, and clothes still come from Bangladesh and we (society as a whole) still buy it from there. Nobody is going to pay the premium required to make an iPhone outside of SE Asia or without the metals from Africa, it is probably not even possible.

shkkmo 5y ago
> I have known about clothing made with child labor since I was in grade school, and I am in my mid 30s, and clothes still come from Bangladesh There are many companies that produce and sell american made apparel. [0] I buy from several of them (on the the rare occasions when I buy more clothes.) > Where is the patronizing of local businesses that use local labor to make goods? Perhaps if you spent less time making assumptions about where other people buy their clothes and more time looking for local options you would actually be helping. The end goal should not be the end of international trade but an insistance that we do not allow international trade to facilitate abuses. The core problem is that people like you and Tim Cook brush off legitimate concerns about the practices of international trade partners as "just the way things are". Edit: I would hope that Ricky Gervais, when confronted with a question about the source of this clothing, would respond thoughfully and even consider changing where he buys his clothes. Ethical business practices may be a niche market today, but the way we expand that market share isn't by just accepting the way things are. [0] https://www.rather-be-shopping.com/blog/american-clothing-made-in-the-usa/ https://www.rather-be-shopping.com/blog/american-clothing-ma...