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From wikipedia: “ Paul Pelliot saw that the tradition according to which Genghis was a blacksmith was unfounded though well established by the middle of the 13

From wikipedia: “ Paul Pelliot saw that the tradition according to which Genghis was a blacksmith was unfounded though well established by the middle of the 13th century.[27]” It seems at least the concept of blacksmiths was familiar to the Mongols before or around the time they went into china. Thats why I explicitly stated “steelworking” instead of “ironworking”. Although they couldnt do it in large quantities the common European smith could use it to enhance his iron products[1] Whereas even the quality of the steel used by the experts in China (even by the 1600s) is questionable. [2] [1] https://the-orb.arlima.net/encyclop/culture/scitech/iron_steel.html https://the-orb.arlima.net/encyclop/culture/scitech/iron_ste... [2] https://www.tf.uni-kiel.de/matwis/amat/iss/kap_a/advanced/aa_2_2.html https://www.tf.uni-kiel.de/matwis/amat/iss/kap_a/advanced/aa...

BadInformatics 5y ago
Bronson and Pigott were a nice read, but it's unclear where Föll is getting most of his conjecture from because they certainly don't talk about it. Frankly, the whole piece smacks of the same Diamond-esque "they made fireworks, we made guns" trope that has been thoroughly torn apart since. Now to his credit, he does claim ignorance at the top of the page, but that seems to be quickly forgotten given how much hyperbole is spewed later on. [1] is a better lay overview of medieval-era steel-making. And for a great breakdown of forces behind European success in the modern era, see Brett Devereaux's series on EU4 [2] [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5djVkOgu8vs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5djVkOgu8vs [2] https://acoup.blog/2021/05/28/collections-teaching-paradox-europa-universalis-iv-part-iv-why-europe/ https://acoup.blog/2021/05/28/collections-teaching-paradox-e...
- gradschoolfail 5y ago
  It reads like Foell was mostly citing Wagner, not B or P. Did you read those?

BadInformatics 5y ago

Bronson and Pigott were a nice read, but it's unclear where Föll is getting most of his conjecture from because they certainly don't talk about it. Frankly, the whole piece smacks of the same Diamond-esque "they made fireworks, we made guns" trope that has been thoroughly torn apart since. Now to his credit, he does claim ignorance at the top of the page, but that seems to be quickly forgotten given how much hyperbole is spewed later on. [1] is a better lay overview of medieval-era steel-making. And for a great breakdown of forces behind European success in the modern era, see Brett Devereaux's series on EU4 [2] [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5djVkOgu8vs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5djVkOgu8vs [2] https://acoup.blog/2021/05/28/collections-teaching-paradox-europa-universalis-iv-part-iv-why-europe/ https://acoup.blog/2021/05/28/collections-teaching-paradox-e...

gradschoolfail 5y ago
It reads like Foell was mostly citing Wagner, not B or P. Did you read those?