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> even with HTB which is a terrible policy the people who can afford to buy are already in the top percentiles What a load of rubbish. HTB really helped us whe

> even with HTB which is a terrible policy the people who can afford to buy are already in the top percentiles What a load of rubbish. HTB really helped us when buying by giving 5 years of interest free We bought a 240k house with a 12k deposit and 48k htb. Moving costs etc meant we had to find about £17k, which we borrowed. Assuming you do that now, HTB means paying £647 a month on the mortgage and £330 a month on repaying the deposit. Total of £977pcm. After 5 years we sold for 240k with £48k htb and £160k mortgage, leaving us with 32k in equity. We could have remortgaged and repaid the htb at that point for a total outlay of £911pcm (with about £500 in fees) With two earners on a middle 28k a year that's falls into well into the "affordable" bucket. Even in London, a 600k house with htb will mean a £30k deposit (a problem) and a £330k mortgage. Two people on 41k each can borrow up to £368k with nationwide which gives an idea about affordability (you'll have to knock some off for things like service charges which are ubiquitious in new houses) And 41k a year with a coalition loan means you have £30,310.51 per year after student loan, not before. If you still have a labour loan from pre-2012 you'll be paying an extra £600 a year. All that's assuming a 600k loan. Reality is that help to buy homes aren't that expensive. This is a decent sized 2 bed flat for £375k. https://www.helptobuyagent2.org.uk//property-search/property-details/30111/34-the-waldrons--croydon- https://www.helptobuyagent2.org.uk//property-search/property... Personally I think you'd be crazy to live in London when there are far more reasonable places to live just half an hour out of a one 1 station and far far less cost, but it London is affordable for people with two London incomes. If you're single on minimum wage and wanting to live in central London? Well tough. Move somewhere else. Plenty of choice for houses in Crewe and Stoke, and plenty of minimum wage jobs.

yodsanklai 5y ago
> you'd be crazy to live in London when there are far more reasonable places to live just half an hour out of a one 1 station and far far less cost How much cheaper would it be? I've just moved to London (living in zone 2, going a bit further didn't strike me as much cheaper).
- iso1210 5y ago
  Depends how often you need to be in London, 2 bed terrace, £270k https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/111488087 https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/111488087 40 minutes to Fenchurch Street (little less for Docklands), £65 per week//£2600 per year. 2 bed 230k https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/112846073 https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/112846073 22 minutes to St Pancras, £127 per week//5k per year If you can get a 2 bed house that close to central London at those prices that's great.
  - fennecfoxy 5y ago
    Only issue with those is the c2c and great western thameslink etc for a season ticket (to get into London for work) you're paying (for that first property in Grays): £3,872.00 per year (includes tube travel) since domestic rail prices here are just ridiculous (lowest subsidies per passenger mile in all of Europe) Also, presuming you don't work at Fenchurch Street, the commute would be anywhere from an hour (to Fenchurch street) to an hour fifteen minutes (nearbyish tube stations).
dogma1138 5y ago
HTB is a disastrous policy that did nothing but to increase the prices of properties. People could borrow much more than they could because the government covered 40% in London and 20% outside of it. Look at the new developments in London, the price is well just under the HTB limit for the handful of HTB flats, then there is the shared ownership racket too. And commuting towns aren’t that cheaper either, and that is even before you account for the insane costs of rail passes.
- iso1210 5y ago
  > HTB is a disastrous policy that did nothing but to increase the prices of properties. It let me buy a property which I wouldn't be able to without HTB, therefore your statement is objectively wrong. > And commuting towns aren’t that cheaper either Plenty of 2 bed houses in daily commuting distance for £250k - easily affordable on a London wage.
  - lurgburg 5y ago
    > It let me buy a property which I wouldn't be able to without HTB Possibly you're taking the wrong counterfactual here? "If I hadn't HTB but everyone else did" vs "If no-one had HTB". It's possible you're quite right about the first, but it tells us little about the second. Possibly in the presence of HTB, prices just rise again until they reach their equilibrium of just-barely-affordable.
    - iso1210 5y ago
      House price doesn't matter, it's the deposit. HTB may have pushed up the house price by say 30%, but it meant the deposit was lower (12k rather than 18k) and the repayments were lower for the first 5 years.
      - fennecfoxy 5y ago
        House price does matter. End of the day with the bump-ed up H2B house prices...sure you can afford it w/ lower deposit thanks to gov assistance...but it's not free money. You still have to pay it back, so the seller is making an extra 30% of our backs bc they bumped the prices thanks to this scheme that was meant to "help" people.
mytailorisrich 5y ago
The problem with HTB is that it sustains inflation. Essentially it subsidises continued property prices' growth, which, in my view, is rather nonsensical economically. As for saving for a deposit, I think an issue is also that many people seem not to have been educated about the benefits of saving at all. Bluntly, many young people I see find the money for short term consumption and don't save anything.
- iso1210 5y ago
  When I was young my outgoings were mainly the cheapest rent I could find. And maybe a slice of avocado toast once a week /s This is because rents rise to the amount someone is willing to pay, which is basically what they earn, because they have to live somewhere near work. If they get free board then they can swiftly build up savings and buy a house and continue the cycle of wealth. If they have to pay, they're screwed.

yodsanklai 5y ago

> you'd be crazy to live in London when there are far more reasonable places to live just half an hour out of a one 1 station and far far less cost How much cheaper would it be? I've just moved to London (living in zone 2, going a bit further didn't strike me as much cheaper).

iso1210 5y ago
Depends how often you need to be in London, 2 bed terrace, £270k https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/111488087 https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/111488087 40 minutes to Fenchurch Street (little less for Docklands), £65 per week//£2600 per year. 2 bed 230k https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/112846073 https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/112846073 22 minutes to St Pancras, £127 per week//5k per year If you can get a 2 bed house that close to central London at those prices that's great.
- fennecfoxy 5y ago
  Only issue with those is the c2c and great western thameslink etc for a season ticket (to get into London for work) you're paying (for that first property in Grays): £3,872.00 per year (includes tube travel) since domestic rail prices here are just ridiculous (lowest subsidies per passenger mile in all of Europe) Also, presuming you don't work at Fenchurch Street, the commute would be anywhere from an hour (to Fenchurch street) to an hour fifteen minutes (nearbyish tube stations).

dogma1138 5y ago

HTB is a disastrous policy that did nothing but to increase the prices of properties. People could borrow much more than they could because the government covered 40% in London and 20% outside of it. Look at the new developments in London, the price is well just under the HTB limit for the handful of HTB flats, then there is the shared ownership racket too. And commuting towns aren’t that cheaper either, and that is even before you account for the insane costs of rail passes.

iso1210 5y ago
> HTB is a disastrous policy that did nothing but to increase the prices of properties. It let me buy a property which I wouldn't be able to without HTB, therefore your statement is objectively wrong. > And commuting towns aren’t that cheaper either Plenty of 2 bed houses in daily commuting distance for £250k - easily affordable on a London wage.
- lurgburg 5y ago
  > It let me buy a property which I wouldn't be able to without HTB Possibly you're taking the wrong counterfactual here? "If I hadn't HTB but everyone else did" vs "If no-one had HTB". It's possible you're quite right about the first, but it tells us little about the second. Possibly in the presence of HTB, prices just rise again until they reach their equilibrium of just-barely-affordable.
  - iso1210 5y ago
    House price doesn't matter, it's the deposit. HTB may have pushed up the house price by say 30%, but it meant the deposit was lower (12k rather than 18k) and the repayments were lower for the first 5 years.
    - fennecfoxy 5y ago
      House price does matter. End of the day with the bump-ed up H2B house prices...sure you can afford it w/ lower deposit thanks to gov assistance...but it's not free money. You still have to pay it back, so the seller is making an extra 30% of our backs bc they bumped the prices thanks to this scheme that was meant to "help" people.

mytailorisrich 5y ago

The problem with HTB is that it sustains inflation. Essentially it subsidises continued property prices' growth, which, in my view, is rather nonsensical economically. As for saving for a deposit, I think an issue is also that many people seem not to have been educated about the benefits of saving at all. Bluntly, many young people I see find the money for short term consumption and don't save anything.

iso1210 5y ago
When I was young my outgoings were mainly the cheapest rent I could find. And maybe a slice of avocado toast once a week /s This is because rents rise to the amount someone is willing to pay, which is basically what they earn, because they have to live somewhere near work. If they get free board then they can swiftly build up savings and buy a house and continue the cycle of wealth. If they have to pay, they're screwed.