7 ms·

No thanks, time to stop mask wearing and let the virus rip through the unvaccinated. Make them face the consequences of their foolishness

by bob229 5y ago

yummypaint 5y ago
There is a small minority of people out there who legitimately can't get the vaccine for medical reasons. Writing them off as collateral damage isn't acceptable public policy. Take comfort in the fact that the maliciously ignorant already punish themselves in a thousand little ways every day. However, no amount of comeuppance will cause those people to recognize their own actions as the source of their problems.
- Zababa 5y ago
  > Writing them off as collateral damage isn't acceptable public policy. It was for the flu. Of course from what I understand Covid is worse than the flu. But in most western countries, during the flu season, it is (or at least was) acceptable to not get the vaccine, not wear masks, etc. Old people were expected to get vaccinated since they were the most vulnerable, but even that was on a voluntary basis. So there are some cases where writing off people as collateral damage is an acceptable public policy.
  - lancesells 5y ago
    > Covid is worse than the flu. 2017-2018 - 61,000 Deaths in the US from Influenza with NO masks or vaccines or lockdowns 2020-Present - 651,000 Deaths in the US from Covid with masks, vaccines, lockdowns, distancing, etc. Even with those numbers being off think of the difference there and why one should be a little more push for the Covid vaccine.
    - yummypaint 5y ago
      Yeah I don't know why people persist in claiming covid is comparable to the flu when a modicum of research immediately rejects that notion. Moreover there are long-term impacts even if someone recovers from covid. It can do permanent life shortening damage in ways that getting the flu does not. If i had to choose between getting the flu and getting covid i will choose the flu every time. Would anyone choose differently?
      - thoughtstheseus 5y ago
        I’d choose different. Some people like the challenge or prefer more risk seeking situations.
        CRConrad 5y ago
        Yeah, but GP meant "would anyone who isn't an idiot?".
    - patrick451 5y ago
      These two data sets were collected using completely different metrics. Therefore, they are not comparable. What's your point again?
    - Zababa 5y ago
      Sure, but the flu is endemic and strikes every year. In general I think it has killed more than Covid in the US, even if we only take the last 20 years. I'm personally vaccinated and think we should take Covid seriously. My point was just that for the flu, we accept to just let people die. I hope Covid will change that, and that people will start wearing masks and be more careful during flu season.
      - thoughtstheseus 5y ago
        Ban cigarettes. We would save more lives.
      - murgindrag 5y ago
        If a side effect of COVID19 were getting rid of flu and colds, I'd be very very happy. It doesn't look like it will be, but it'd be nice. I actually think all the contact tracing stuff would do it. If we had zero tolerance for colds and flues -- we quarantine everyone who gets them and their contacts -- we'd end up at close to zero cases, and close to zero actual quarantines. I actually think steady-state, we'd need fewer quarantines than the number of people flu kills. Flues kill 60k per season. I think 60k quarantines would be more than adequate for containing it.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
nvr219 5y ago
Like my children? lol no thanks.
- Wowfunhappy 5y ago
  While I would have made the point differently than the GP—your children are not at serious risk from COVID because of their age. (They are at some risk—life involves risk—but it’s low.) The people seriously at risk from COVID are unvaccinated adults.
  - jzig 5y ago
    You don't have children.
  - murgindrag 5y ago
    If you define "risk" as "hospitalization," that's largely true. If you define "risk" as months or years of bizarre symptoms, reduced lung capacity, brain fog, etc., then children are at risk too. But perhaps you don't care about that sort of thing.
    - stolenmerch 5y ago
      Most studies I've seen show "long covid" to be pretty rare in children. Perhaps something like 5% of children who test positive have mild symptoms a month later. [1] This is somewhat consistent with other respiratory virus infections we've known about. [2] It's possible our risk tolerance is way different but this is personally an acceptable number for me not to worry about my own child. [1] https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/08/long-covid-19-rare-children-study-says https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/08/long-cov... [2] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31718695/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31718695/
      - murgindrag 5y ago
        I don't think this represents most studies, but the far lower end. If we're going to cherry-pick, here's one which shows more than half of kids show at least one symptom 120 days out: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.01.23.21250375v1 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.01.23.21250375v... My best guess is that it's around 10%-20% -- that's sort of in the middle where studies land. I suspect a big part of the problem is which child and which COVID. I would speculate alpha, delta, mu, etc. all have different rates. I think the second question is the distribution of symptoms. None of the studies are sensitive enough to pick up a 5% loss in IQ, lung capacity, or similar. Do some kids get it and others don't? Or is there a bell curve of symptoms, and we're picking up kids with the more extreme versions? If it's a bell curve, it's pretty scary. All kids could be harmed to the level of e.g. lead exposure, and we wouldn't notice.
sschueller 5y ago
All fun and games until you have a car accident and there are no ICU beds available for you. Letting the virus go rampant still affects the vaccinated and the poor few that can't get vaccinated because of underlying health issues.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
patrick451 5y ago
As an un-vaccinated person, I wholeheartedly agree. Speaking for every single un-vaccinated person I know, we never expected anyone to keep wear masks or whatever because of us.

No thanks, time to stop mask wearing and let the virus rip through the unvaccinated. Make them face the consequences of their foolishness

by bob229 5y ago

No thanks, time to stop mask wearing and let the virus rip through the unvaccinated. Make them face the consequences of their foolishness

yummypaint 5y ago

There is a small minority of people out there who legitimately can't get the vaccine for medical reasons. Writing them off as collateral damage isn't acceptable public policy. Take comfort in the fact that the maliciously ignorant already punish themselves in a thousand little ways every day. However, no amount of comeuppance will cause those people to recognize their own actions as the source of their problems.

Zababa 5y ago
> Writing them off as collateral damage isn't acceptable public policy. It was for the flu. Of course from what I understand Covid is worse than the flu. But in most western countries, during the flu season, it is (or at least was) acceptable to not get the vaccine, not wear masks, etc. Old people were expected to get vaccinated since they were the most vulnerable, but even that was on a voluntary basis. So there are some cases where writing off people as collateral damage is an acceptable public policy.
- lancesells 5y ago
  > Covid is worse than the flu. 2017-2018 - 61,000 Deaths in the US from Influenza with NO masks or vaccines or lockdowns 2020-Present - 651,000 Deaths in the US from Covid with masks, vaccines, lockdowns, distancing, etc. Even with those numbers being off think of the difference there and why one should be a little more push for the Covid vaccine.
  - yummypaint 5y ago
    Yeah I don't know why people persist in claiming covid is comparable to the flu when a modicum of research immediately rejects that notion. Moreover there are long-term impacts even if someone recovers from covid. It can do permanent life shortening damage in ways that getting the flu does not. If i had to choose between getting the flu and getting covid i will choose the flu every time. Would anyone choose differently?
    - thoughtstheseus 5y ago
      I’d choose different. Some people like the challenge or prefer more risk seeking situations.
      - CRConrad 5y ago
        Yeah, but GP meant "would anyone who isn't an idiot?".
  - patrick451 5y ago
    These two data sets were collected using completely different metrics. Therefore, they are not comparable. What's your point again?
  - Zababa 5y ago
    Sure, but the flu is endemic and strikes every year. In general I think it has killed more than Covid in the US, even if we only take the last 20 years. I'm personally vaccinated and think we should take Covid seriously. My point was just that for the flu, we accept to just let people die. I hope Covid will change that, and that people will start wearing masks and be more careful during flu season.
    - thoughtstheseus 5y ago
      Ban cigarettes. We would save more lives.
    - murgindrag 5y ago
      If a side effect of COVID19 were getting rid of flu and colds, I'd be very very happy. It doesn't look like it will be, but it'd be nice. I actually think all the contact tracing stuff would do it. If we had zero tolerance for colds and flues -- we quarantine everyone who gets them and their contacts -- we'd end up at close to zero cases, and close to zero actual quarantines. I actually think steady-state, we'd need fewer quarantines than the number of people flu kills. Flues kill 60k per season. I think 60k quarantines would be more than adequate for containing it.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

nvr219 5y ago

Like my children? lol no thanks.

Wowfunhappy 5y ago
While I would have made the point differently than the GP—your children are not at serious risk from COVID because of their age. (They are at some risk—life involves risk—but it’s low.) The people seriously at risk from COVID are unvaccinated adults.
- jzig 5y ago
  You don't have children.
- murgindrag 5y ago
  If you define "risk" as "hospitalization," that's largely true. If you define "risk" as months or years of bizarre symptoms, reduced lung capacity, brain fog, etc., then children are at risk too. But perhaps you don't care about that sort of thing.
  - stolenmerch 5y ago
    Most studies I've seen show "long covid" to be pretty rare in children. Perhaps something like 5% of children who test positive have mild symptoms a month later. [1] This is somewhat consistent with other respiratory virus infections we've known about. [2] It's possible our risk tolerance is way different but this is personally an acceptable number for me not to worry about my own child. [1] https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/08/long-covid-19-rare-children-study-says https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/08/long-cov... [2] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31718695/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31718695/
    - murgindrag 5y ago
      I don't think this represents most studies, but the far lower end. If we're going to cherry-pick, here's one which shows more than half of kids show at least one symptom 120 days out: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.01.23.21250375v1 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.01.23.21250375v... My best guess is that it's around 10%-20% -- that's sort of in the middle where studies land. I suspect a big part of the problem is which child and which COVID. I would speculate alpha, delta, mu, etc. all have different rates. I think the second question is the distribution of symptoms. None of the studies are sensitive enough to pick up a 5% loss in IQ, lung capacity, or similar. Do some kids get it and others don't? Or is there a bell curve of symptoms, and we're picking up kids with the more extreme versions? If it's a bell curve, it's pretty scary. All kids could be harmed to the level of e.g. lead exposure, and we wouldn't notice.

sschueller 5y ago

All fun and games until you have a car accident and there are no ICU beds available for you. Letting the virus go rampant still affects the vaccinated and the poor few that can't get vaccinated because of underlying health issues.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

patrick451 5y ago

As an un-vaccinated person, I wholeheartedly agree. Speaking for every single un-vaccinated person I know, we never expected anyone to keep wear masks or whatever because of us.