4 ms·

I'm very unhappy about this. It won't be possible to buy a reasonable retirement income anymore and all the profits of the property sector will flow toward thos

I'm very unhappy about this. It won't be possible to buy a reasonable retirement income anymore and all the profits of the property sector will flow toward those deep pocketed property firms who have the right political connections to get permits. I think the governments just want to work us till we either reach a much extended retirement age or die from depression (which you can be euthanized for here). I'll be fighting to get a second property in the coming months to rent out.

belter 5y ago
If you are buying to rent in the Dutch market, and you are not part of the royal family, or a Black Rock fund you are making a big mistake. You are in a legal environment where you will not be able to evict a non paying tenant for several years. If there are children in the picture or a divorce you will have even more serious problems. The Belastingen will come after your earnings plus, you are likely to be victim of a legal environment biased to puritanical inspired laws, that try to hit back at anybody trying to get ahead of their neighbors in the same street. In other words, there are strong forces to make you get back to conformity, on what is a very homogeneous society. You will be taking on a huge amount of risk that normally only professional well funded investors are able to weather.
- TacticalMalice 5y ago
  Eviction is already possible after 3 months of not paying rents (and sometimes after 2 months if there's a history of non-payment). The landlord has to get a court order, which is commonly granted. Minors will be placed in foster care if they cannot be placed elsewhere. Taxes on earnings depend on how you structure your work. They are usually in "box 3" where taxes are based on fictitious returns on investment as a percentage of total wealth and (fictitious) asset class. That said, law-makers are a significant source of uncertainty and risk.
  - belter 5y ago
    Well not at the moment to start with: "Government rules that tenants cannot be evicted during corona crisis" https://www.iamexpat.nl/housing/real-estate-news/government-rules-tenants-cannot-be-evicted-during-corona-crisis https://www.iamexpat.nl/housing/real-estate-news/government-... Also tenants can sign contract with you ( as landlord) and immediately go to the Huur Commissie and argue their rent is too high. So it will be lowered if they first signed a different contract with the landlord. https://www.huurcommissie.nl/ https://www.huurcommissie.nl/ Concerning what you seem to describe as a very smooth process I have strong doubts. If a tenant lawyer argues there is a temporary situation with the family, children take priority etc...A Dutch judge will not ignore all that, and simply take the major step of putting children under foster care, if the landlord does not need the house to live there himself. Specially taking into account the dire situation of foster care in the Netherlands: "The decline in foster parents means that the Netherlands is facing a shortage. According to Foster Care Netherlands, 3,500 foster families are needed each year. Last year there were only 2,566. Currently over 700 children are waiting for a place in a family..." https://nltimes.nl/2020/01/09/many-foster-parents-quit-lack-support-report https://nltimes.nl/2020/01/09/many-foster-parents-quit-lack-... I know a landlord who waited 2 years. Just a data point I would agree, but I strongly doubt its the smooth process you describe.
    - TacticalMalice 5y ago
      > "Government rules that tenants cannot be evicted during corona crisis" The above is an agreement between several housing cooperations/companies and the ministry. It is not a law and eviction orders due to backpay have still been granted after June 2020, when access to the courts opened up again for these cases. And yes, judges will consider the interests of all parties. In the case where a judge won't grant an eviction, the tenant will be ordered to pay missed rent. > Also tenants can sign contract with you ( as landlord) and immediately go to the Huur Commissie and argue their rent is too high. So it will be lowered if they first signed a different contract with the landlord. This is only possible for social housing (based on the point system), so this shouldn't come as a surprise for the landlord. This is also a reason to avoid renting out social housing. The only thing during COVID that's affecting most landlords is that rent increase is maximized. Considering that employees are supported via their employer's NOW-subsidy, I don't buy the argument for this maximization for people that still have jobs. Another benefit to offering only temporary contracts. > I know a landlord who waited 2 years. Waited two years before getting an order, or only successfully getting an order after two years?
- timwaagh 5y ago
  My grandparents and my brother already rent out property. There's risks to it of course but that's the case with all investments

belter 5y ago

If you are buying to rent in the Dutch market, and you are not part of the royal family, or a Black Rock fund you are making a big mistake. You are in a legal environment where you will not be able to evict a non paying tenant for several years. If there are children in the picture or a divorce you will have even more serious problems. The Belastingen will come after your earnings plus, you are likely to be victim of a legal environment biased to puritanical inspired laws, that try to hit back at anybody trying to get ahead of their neighbors in the same street. In other words, there are strong forces to make you get back to conformity, on what is a very homogeneous society. You will be taking on a huge amount of risk that normally only professional well funded investors are able to weather.

TacticalMalice 5y ago
Eviction is already possible after 3 months of not paying rents (and sometimes after 2 months if there's a history of non-payment). The landlord has to get a court order, which is commonly granted. Minors will be placed in foster care if they cannot be placed elsewhere. Taxes on earnings depend on how you structure your work. They are usually in "box 3" where taxes are based on fictitious returns on investment as a percentage of total wealth and (fictitious) asset class. That said, law-makers are a significant source of uncertainty and risk.
- belter 5y ago
  Well not at the moment to start with: "Government rules that tenants cannot be evicted during corona crisis" https://www.iamexpat.nl/housing/real-estate-news/government-rules-tenants-cannot-be-evicted-during-corona-crisis https://www.iamexpat.nl/housing/real-estate-news/government-... Also tenants can sign contract with you ( as landlord) and immediately go to the Huur Commissie and argue their rent is too high. So it will be lowered if they first signed a different contract with the landlord. https://www.huurcommissie.nl/ https://www.huurcommissie.nl/ Concerning what you seem to describe as a very smooth process I have strong doubts. If a tenant lawyer argues there is a temporary situation with the family, children take priority etc...A Dutch judge will not ignore all that, and simply take the major step of putting children under foster care, if the landlord does not need the house to live there himself. Specially taking into account the dire situation of foster care in the Netherlands: "The decline in foster parents means that the Netherlands is facing a shortage. According to Foster Care Netherlands, 3,500 foster families are needed each year. Last year there were only 2,566. Currently over 700 children are waiting for a place in a family..." https://nltimes.nl/2020/01/09/many-foster-parents-quit-lack-support-report https://nltimes.nl/2020/01/09/many-foster-parents-quit-lack-... I know a landlord who waited 2 years. Just a data point I would agree, but I strongly doubt its the smooth process you describe.
  - TacticalMalice 5y ago
    > "Government rules that tenants cannot be evicted during corona crisis" The above is an agreement between several housing cooperations/companies and the ministry. It is not a law and eviction orders due to backpay have still been granted after June 2020, when access to the courts opened up again for these cases. And yes, judges will consider the interests of all parties. In the case where a judge won't grant an eviction, the tenant will be ordered to pay missed rent. > Also tenants can sign contract with you ( as landlord) and immediately go to the Huur Commissie and argue their rent is too high. So it will be lowered if they first signed a different contract with the landlord. This is only possible for social housing (based on the point system), so this shouldn't come as a surprise for the landlord. This is also a reason to avoid renting out social housing. The only thing during COVID that's affecting most landlords is that rent increase is maximized. Considering that employees are supported via their employer's NOW-subsidy, I don't buy the argument for this maximization for people that still have jobs. Another benefit to offering only temporary contracts. > I know a landlord who waited 2 years. Waited two years before getting an order, or only successfully getting an order after two years?
timwaagh 5y ago
My grandparents and my brother already rent out property. There's risks to it of course but that's the case with all investments