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Would it be less wrong and less confusing to just put South at the top, and make sure there's a prominent compass rose? For prominent shapes like your country

Would it be less wrong and less confusing to just put South at the top, and make sure there's a prominent compass rose? For prominent shapes like your country or state, or a map you might hang on the wall, we're very used to seeing them with North at the top. But when using a map for navigation (either a paper one or an electronic device) it's quite common to have other orientations.

user-the-name 5y ago
Nothing is wrong about having the light the way it is. It is not meant to be a picture of what the planet actually looks like. It is a map. What it is meant to look like is a small 3D model of the landscape, not the planet itself.
Freak_NL 5y ago
Convention and predictability are strong reasons for maps to be north-oriented. A different orientation increases the cognitive load of using the map, which goes against its usual design goals. The exception are small hyper-local maps where orienteering by the use of compass, far away points of interest, and the sun are not part of the map's purpose, and reorienting is helpful or aesthetically pleasing because of the shape or layout of the area shown; think shopping malls, amusement parks, or the immediate environs of a point of interest.
- dmurray 5y ago
  I don't know if it's just "small hyper-local" maps. The standard map of Manhattan, for example, is normally oriented with "uptown" at the top which is about 40°, closer to NE than N. Mainly because it fits on rectangular displays better that way. I understand your points about convention, of course, but the trade-off against convention (or in favour of establishing a new local convention) is perhaps made more often than you think.
  - Ekaros 5y ago
    Does same applies for maps of New York City in general? That is those showing larger area than just Manhattan? Manhattan is good example of hyper-local map. Even if area is relatively big. As the city planning leads to such format. That is mostly straight roads going in two directions, where cardinal direction isn't so important for navigation.
    - umanwizard 5y ago
      > Does same applies for maps of New York City in general? That is those showing larger area than just Manhattan? Sometimes, yes. The most iconic example is probably the MTA subway map which is visible in almost all subway cars.
- throw0101a 5y ago
  > think shopping malls, amusement parks, or the immediate environs of a point of interest. Fire escape maps in buildings. I find this annoying that most are north-up or some other 'typical' convention, where IMHO you want them to be so that things are oriented relative to how the viewer is reading them.
  - Freak_NL 5y ago
    This must vary a lot worldwide. I've always seen them with the wall the map is placed on representing 'up', which makes sense when you are looking at in a hallway, because then 'left' on the map is also left in actuality (and 'right' obviously right).
- eesmith 5y ago
  Humorously, the term "orientation" comes from when Christian Europeans traditionally had Jerusalem - in the east ("orient") - at the top of the map. It wasn't until around the time of Mercator that they started putting North at the top. https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20160614-maps-have-north-at-the-top-but-it-couldve-been-different https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20160614-maps-have-north-...
mkl 5y ago
But sunlight comes from the north...here in the southern hemisphere. It would be pretty confusing to have two conventions for the different hemispheres, and would make it weird in whole-world views. I never rotate maps when I'm navigating either; it seems like that would make it harder to keep track of which way things are.
- SiempreViernes 5y ago
  As long as you take care to keep rotating the map while you move, the end result is that you can local directions like left and right directly when reading the map.

user-the-name 5y ago

Nothing is wrong about having the light the way it is. It is not meant to be a picture of what the planet actually looks like. It is a map. What it is meant to look like is a small 3D model of the landscape, not the planet itself.

Freak_NL 5y ago

Convention and predictability are strong reasons for maps to be north-oriented. A different orientation increases the cognitive load of using the map, which goes against its usual design goals. The exception are small hyper-local maps where orienteering by the use of compass, far away points of interest, and the sun are not part of the map's purpose, and reorienting is helpful or aesthetically pleasing because of the shape or layout of the area shown; think shopping malls, amusement parks, or the immediate environs of a point of interest.

dmurray 5y ago
I don't know if it's just "small hyper-local" maps. The standard map of Manhattan, for example, is normally oriented with "uptown" at the top which is about 40°, closer to NE than N. Mainly because it fits on rectangular displays better that way. I understand your points about convention, of course, but the trade-off against convention (or in favour of establishing a new local convention) is perhaps made more often than you think.
- Ekaros 5y ago
  Does same applies for maps of New York City in general? That is those showing larger area than just Manhattan? Manhattan is good example of hyper-local map. Even if area is relatively big. As the city planning leads to such format. That is mostly straight roads going in two directions, where cardinal direction isn't so important for navigation.
  - umanwizard 5y ago
    > Does same applies for maps of New York City in general? That is those showing larger area than just Manhattan? Sometimes, yes. The most iconic example is probably the MTA subway map which is visible in almost all subway cars.
throw0101a 5y ago
> think shopping malls, amusement parks, or the immediate environs of a point of interest. Fire escape maps in buildings. I find this annoying that most are north-up or some other 'typical' convention, where IMHO you want them to be so that things are oriented relative to how the viewer is reading them.
- Freak_NL 5y ago
  This must vary a lot worldwide. I've always seen them with the wall the map is placed on representing 'up', which makes sense when you are looking at in a hallway, because then 'left' on the map is also left in actuality (and 'right' obviously right).
eesmith 5y ago
Humorously, the term "orientation" comes from when Christian Europeans traditionally had Jerusalem - in the east ("orient") - at the top of the map. It wasn't until around the time of Mercator that they started putting North at the top. https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20160614-maps-have-north-at-the-top-but-it-couldve-been-different https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20160614-maps-have-north-...

mkl 5y ago

But sunlight comes from the north...here in the southern hemisphere. It would be pretty confusing to have two conventions for the different hemispheres, and would make it weird in whole-world views. I never rotate maps when I'm navigating either; it seems like that would make it harder to keep track of which way things are.

SiempreViernes 5y ago
As long as you take care to keep rotating the map while you move, the end result is that you can local directions like left and right directly when reading the map.