5 ms·

Personally, I’m much more mystified by how emotionally invested otherwise normal people become in initiatives to reduce the numbers of undesirable populations.

by sk2020 5y ago

Personally, I’m much more mystified by how emotionally invested otherwise normal people become in initiatives to reduce the numbers of undesirable populations. Margaret Sanger wasn’t exactly subtle.

noduerme 5y ago
Around 23.7% of women in the US had had an abortion by age 45, as of 2017[1]. I don't think they did it because they believed in eugenics. They made difficult, sometimes wrenching personal choices. What I don't understand is how otherwise normal people who want the government out of their lives can suddenly demand the government get involved in one of the most personal decisions anyone will ever make. [1] https://www.guttmacher.org/news-release/2017/abortion-common-experience-us-women-despite-dramatic-declines-rates https://www.guttmacher.org/news-release/2017/abortion-common...
- Out_of_Characte 5y ago
  because somewhere between a baby and a bunch of cells you get inalienable human rights. according to texas, after 6 weeks. Why do I feel I get flak because people think I'm pro life. I'm not, but even if I was that shouldn't be a valid argument.
  - noduerme 5y ago
    And according to other countries at 3 months, or at conception. I'm just pointing out the irony that the most restrictive interpretation now in the US is in a place that supposedly prides itself on individual liberty. The principle of least governmental interference seems not to apply in this case, even for the same people who are up in arms about, I don't know, the government telling them to wear a mask in situations where they might kill a full grown human? I've seen them marching at antivax protests with signs reading "my body my choice"... well, is it or ain't it? I know, I know. The real mark of being "Texas" isn't being conservative or having some kind of consistent view of liberty and governance. It's the lack of coherent logic and the fun of gaslighting.
    - Out_of_Characte 5y ago
      "It's the lack of coherent logic and the fun of gaslighting. " That's certainly the case here, many haven't read what the law states and how its being 'enforced' again, if the law states that you can't abort after 6 weeks I would be fine with it. The problem is that its not criminal in nature to abort a living human being with a heartbeat as stated in the law. (Yes, you've read that right) its a civil case. Despite the politicians getting exactly what they want, its still a complete misrepresentation what ACTUAl pro-life advocates stand for. Surely in this polarized age some might argue the end justifies the means, but I can't accept that. why they chose to make this a civil case is obvious, they state it outright in their press release: [https://txvalues.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Texas-Heartbeat-Law1.pdf https://txvalues.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Texas-Heartb...] "Relies on civil enforcement of the law by citizens, making it virtually impossible for a court to strike down the law as “unconstitutional.”" which is exactly what happened. as is the case with civil suits, performing abortions after 6 weeks is therefore only a problem IF someone decides to sue you and has evidence. Medical information is also protected so god only knows how this piece of work is going to turn out. I mentioned this because technically the government is NOT involved in any of this because its not a criminal case.
int_19h 5y ago
I don't care about populations. I do care about individual people. The right to abortion follows directly from the right to make one's own choices about one's body (i.e. bodily autonomy).

by sk2020 5y ago

noduerme 5y ago

Around 23.7% of women in the US had had an abortion by age 45, as of 2017[1]. I don't think they did it because they believed in eugenics. They made difficult, sometimes wrenching personal choices. What I don't understand is how otherwise normal people who want the government out of their lives can suddenly demand the government get involved in one of the most personal decisions anyone will ever make. [1] https://www.guttmacher.org/news-release/2017/abortion-common-experience-us-women-despite-dramatic-declines-rates https://www.guttmacher.org/news-release/2017/abortion-common...

Out_of_Characte 5y ago
because somewhere between a baby and a bunch of cells you get inalienable human rights. according to texas, after 6 weeks. Why do I feel I get flak because people think I'm pro life. I'm not, but even if I was that shouldn't be a valid argument.
- noduerme 5y ago
  And according to other countries at 3 months, or at conception. I'm just pointing out the irony that the most restrictive interpretation now in the US is in a place that supposedly prides itself on individual liberty. The principle of least governmental interference seems not to apply in this case, even for the same people who are up in arms about, I don't know, the government telling them to wear a mask in situations where they might kill a full grown human? I've seen them marching at antivax protests with signs reading "my body my choice"... well, is it or ain't it? I know, I know. The real mark of being "Texas" isn't being conservative or having some kind of consistent view of liberty and governance. It's the lack of coherent logic and the fun of gaslighting.
  - Out_of_Characte 5y ago
    "It's the lack of coherent logic and the fun of gaslighting. " That's certainly the case here, many haven't read what the law states and how its being 'enforced' again, if the law states that you can't abort after 6 weeks I would be fine with it. The problem is that its not criminal in nature to abort a living human being with a heartbeat as stated in the law. (Yes, you've read that right) its a civil case. Despite the politicians getting exactly what they want, its still a complete misrepresentation what ACTUAl pro-life advocates stand for. Surely in this polarized age some might argue the end justifies the means, but I can't accept that. why they chose to make this a civil case is obvious, they state it outright in their press release: [https://txvalues.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Texas-Heartbeat-Law1.pdf https://txvalues.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Texas-Heartb...] "Relies on civil enforcement of the law by citizens, making it virtually impossible for a court to strike down the law as “unconstitutional.”" which is exactly what happened. as is the case with civil suits, performing abortions after 6 weeks is therefore only a problem IF someone decides to sue you and has evidence. Medical information is also protected so god only knows how this piece of work is going to turn out. I mentioned this because technically the government is NOT involved in any of this because its not a criminal case.

int_19h 5y ago

I don't care about populations. I do care about individual people. The right to abortion follows directly from the right to make one's own choices about one's body (i.e. bodily autonomy).